Transcript for José Hernández Interview on the Beyond Speaking Podcast
Jose Hernandez discusses his journey from a farmworker family to becoming an astronaut, highlighting the perseverance and strategies that led to his success, including his passion for making a significant impact beyond space travel, such as his work on a digital mammography system for early detection of breast cancer. Additionally, the interview touches on his personal life, including his family's support and ventures like winemaking.
Podcast Episode · Beyond Speaking · April 9, 2024 · 31m
José: Say something now. As soon as the idea pops up, say it. There's no such thing as a bad idea. And I always tell people, whenever you feel like you don't belong, take a safety time out on yourself and reflect on your accomplishments today. Reflect on the fact that what got you there. You know, I always said, hey, you know, no one took the finals from me when I graduated college or graduate school. No one invented the digital mammography system. It was me.
And so do I belong here? Hell yeah, I belong here. And that's what people need to do is to reassure themselves, build themselves back up and say, I belong here. I'm gonna make the comments when I get that idea, I'm gonna say it right away.
Intro: Welcome to the Beyond Speaking podcast from Premiere Speakers Bureau, featuring in-depth conversations with the world's most in-demand keynote speaker.
Brian: Hi I’m Brian Lord, president of Premiere Speakers Bureau, and your host of the Beyond Speaking Podcast. Our guest today is José Hernández. He's an engineer and author of three books, including Reaching for the Stars, and most importantly, an astronaut. The story about his life A Million Miles Away was recently released on Prime Video, starring one of my favorites, Michael Peña. So, José, thank you so much for coming on and joining us and being part of the Beyond Speaking Podcast.
José: Thank you very much, Brian. Happy to be here, and just ecstatic over being able to talk to you about what I do now.
Brian: Yeah, and I'm really excited too, just because I love stories of people, you know, overcoming so much. And especially people who are like, I'm a big nerd, like so much of the stuff you did was really higher level. But even just coming from, you know, a humble beginning.
I know I mentioned off air here that I come from a farm family. So does your family as well. Can you tell us a little bit about your beginning and kind of where you started from before going to space?
José: Absolutely. My parents, my father at the young age of 15, out of economic necessity, started a route that took him from his home state in central Mexico to California following the harvest of the crops. He would spend three different locations, starting in Southern California, then central, ending up in Northern California, a total of nine months, and then go back to Mexico for three months. And then repeat that process year after year since the young age of 15.
At 18, he marries my mom and and brings her along this nomadic lifestyle. Kids come along. Half of us are born here, half in Mexico. And then of course, schooling, many interruptions early on in school. And it wasn't until my second grade teacher convinced my parents to stay in one place. We made Stockton, California our home. But we were still a farm working family living at or near poverty.
And it wasn't until the 10th grade that I knew what my calling was. And that was when I saw live, the very last Apollo mission, Apollo 17 on TV, when I saw astronaut Gene Cernan walk on the moon. I said, that's what I wanna be. I wanna be that. And ever since then, I never looked back.
Brian: What was your family's reaction to that declaration, that decision?
José: You know, my father, in spite of only having a third grade education, had the wisdom to take me serious. He did two important things that night when I told him I wanted to be an astronaut. He took me to the kitchen and he validated the dream. He says, I think you can do it. And then he said, follow this five simple, five ingredient recipe, that if you follow it to the T, I promise you'll reach your goal.
And he said, define your purpose in life. Recognize how far you are, draw yourself a roadmap so you know how to get there, prepare yourself accordingly, and develop a work ethic second to none. So you mix that up, that's the recipe to succeed.
And then, Brian, I add, of course, the sixth ingredient ever so important is perseverance. It's never giving up on yourself. And so I tell this story because, you know, NASA rejected me not once, not twice, not even three or four times. It was 11 rejections. It wasn't until the 12th try that I finally got selected as an astronaut. So it's a story of perseverance, but following my father's all important five ingredient recipe.
Brian: Wow. Well, so in preparing for this interview, I did get some questions from multiple viewers and listeners, and I'll sprinkle those in. So this one comes from the aptly-named woman named Starr in Indiana. And she said, What inspired you to never give up after applying to NASA so many times?
José: Brian, what inspired me was that my plan B was built into my plan A. Plan A, of course, was to become an astronaut, but the mere fact that I wanted to become an astronaut motivated me to go graduate high school, go to college, go to graduate school, work at a premier research facility.
So as I applied, yeah, I got rejected. But I looked at what I was doing at that moment and I said, you know, based on where I came from, this is not a bad consolation prize. So the moral of the story here, Brian, is make sure you enjoy your journey to your destination because that's 70-80% of your time and effort. And even if you don't get there, at least you're enjoying the journey.
Brian: So along that journey, how did you change? What are those things you did between 1 and 12 of the applications to NASA?
José: Well, between 1 and 6, I didn't do much except get more work experience. I focused. I developed like a three-element strategy to reaching your goal out of the school of hard knocks. That now, as an engineer, I always reflect back and say, okay, how did I get here? Yes, I followed my dad's recipe. Yes, I had perseverance, but there's got to be some more stuff I can share with the audience so that, hopefully, they don't struggle as much as I did. And so the first six times, I focus just on the minimum requirements and experience. And that's the first element of that three element strategy I developed.
The second element came after the sixth rejection when I crumpled the rejection letter and threw it on the ground and my wife found it. And she's basically called me out because I was ready to give up. And she said, “I didn't know you were a quitter.” And to me, those were fighting words. So I said, Whoa, my wife thinks I'm a quitter. And so I explained to her, I got rejected six times. Clearly NASA doesn't want me. And she said, Yeah, I agree with you. NASA doesn't want you the sixth time or the previous five times.
But she made me read the last sentence of the rejection letter out loud. And it read, “Please feel free to reapply again.” And she said, “they're inviting you to reapply, and I know that if you don't apply the seventh time, I do know you won't get selected. I know that. I also know,” she says, “because I know you, José. You're gonna wonder what if. And you're always gonna have that worm of curiosity. It's gonna gnaw at you, gnaw at you, and you're gonna become a bitter old man. And I don't wanna be married to a bitter old man.” So that's when she walked away.
She said something that really stuck with me. She said, “I don't know what they have that you don't,” meaning the people that got selected. And when she walked away, I couldn't answer that question either, Brian. I said, maybe I better find out.
So then I dove into everybody's, every successful person that got selected as an astronaut that year. I dove into their curriculum and found something they had in common that I didn't, which was that they were pilots. So I invested in myself and I became a pilot. Another year I dove into their curriculum. They were pilots as I expected. I was a pilot, so I was happy.
But then I dove in deeper dive and I found out they were all scuba dive rated. I wasn't scuba dive rated. So I drove to Monterey, California from Stockton, a two hour drive every weekend, got basic advanced scuba rescue, master rated certified. NASA knew I knew how to scuba dive.
So that's the second element. Remember, the first element is: make sure you meet the minimum requirements. The second element is: compare yourself to successful people and don't be afraid to invest in yourself. And then the third one was to differentiate yourself from the competition so that you're the obvious choice.
The way I did that is I accepted a job no one wanted, which was working for the Department of Energy at the National Lab, helping the nuclear nonproliferation arena, to go to Siberia of all places, sometimes in the middle of winter. I went 25 times over a five year period, learned, and I got a Russian language instructor. So , I learned Russian. And I did that because you have to be strategic with your career.
I read three months prior that the US and Russia signed an agreement to build what was going to be the International Space Station. So it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we were gonna be working with the Russians in the future, even though I am one, but it didn't take rocket science to figure that out. And so when this job came along, I said, this is my great differentiator. And so that's the third element is you gotta differentiate yourself from the competition.
Brian: That's great. So what so let's see here, we've gotten from one to eleven. What changed for NASA between eleven and twelve?
José: I went in person and delivered the application. And I got some FaceTime with the people. And so I think they put a face with the application.
Brian: So it was all those things plus that. Did you run marathons too? I'm always curious if there are some different things between movies and real life.
José: Yeah, I ran eleven marathons and, you know, sub three marathons on several occasions.
Brian: Wow, that's impressive. That's hard to do under any circumstance, let alone while you're doing all the other stuff.
José: Can't do that now, but yeah. When I was a young, when I was a youngster, yeah.
Brian: Yeah, that's awesome. So you mentioned your wife earlier. She obviously was a big part of that. How hard was it? Like what did she sacrifice to do it? But also I know she's pretty successful in her own right.
José: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we sacrificed resources, right? Because it took money to become a pilot, it took money to become a scuba dive certified, those types of things. And she was a very good sport about it. And then of course, you know, she followed me across country. I did a change of station assignment for the national lab in Washington, DC, and took the whole family with me for two years.
And then she wanted to start a restaurant. We put that dream on hold until later in life, once I got selected as an astronaut, then we put up the restaurant and she finally fulfilled her dream of having her own restaurant. And so that was kind of neat. Well, neat for her and not for me, because on occasions she was short-handed. And guess who had to wash dishes, you know. Sometimes with that blue suit on, I was in the back washing dishes.
Brian: So I was gonna ask that. I cause I know that that's in there too. So you're in there washing dishes. And now did you ever wait tables in it too, or no?
José: Yeah. Waited tables, bussed, I did everything, man. Except cook.
Brian: You gotta look after the health of your client.
José: I'm not a good cook. My wife is. But my son cooked. I mean, he was a teenager and he was out there cooking, and he loves cooking. So he helped out a lot in the kitchen on the cooking side.
Brian: Now, did your wife use any of those five things from her father-in-law to become successful as a restaurant entrepreneur?
José: I think for her it was all natural. It comes natural for her. Yeah, she's a natural businesswoman, and so she did pretty well. She didn't need much coaching from me or her father-in-law.
Brian: Yeah, that's good. So the name of it's Tierra Luna. How did you guys come up with that?
José: Grill. Well, I was already an astronaut. So she said, Hey, Earth, Moon, Grill, because Tierra is Earth, Moon, you know, Luna is moon. So earth, moon, grill is what she named it. And it's down the street from NASA. So it only made sense. However, Tierra has a double meaning. It means earth, but it also means dirt. So my buddies will say, let's go to Dirt Moon Grill. So that would be Dirt Moon Grill.
Brian: Nice, nice. That's great. So you know, obviously you challenge yourself quite a bit. Your wife challenged you. When you speak to audiences, how do you challenge them to challenge themselves?
José: I always tell them to be honest with themselves and recognize where they're at at this particular moment and don't be afraid to invest in yourselves—just to make sure that to make yourself better, more competitive. It's all about investing in yourself.
Brian: Yes, and how do audiences respond to that?
José: I think audiences are very, very appreciative of the fact that I give them, you know, it's not only a motivational talk that I give them, an uplifting talk or aspirational talk, I also give them the tools that can they can take away with them so they can start applying it in everyday life.
You know, this ingredient recipe that includes perseverance of my dad, that three element strategy. I mean, they walk away with those things, and if they put them into practice almost immediately, they will notice the difference.
And so that's part of it that I like to talk about, is that it's not just a fact of, hey, I'm gonna make you feel good for the next hour. It's more of let's talk about where you're at, and let's talk about where you really wanna be. And let's talk about how you can get there because this is what I use, this is what I learned, and this is how you can get there as well.
Brian: You're also great for leadership groups. You know, when you talk about leadership and communication, what are sort of the keys that you've learned from NASA and elsewhere as an entrepreneur that you talk to leaders about?
José: Well, you know, yeah, I went to NASA Charm School is what we call it, where you know, you learn how to talk in public. But I already had that kind of knack because I'm very involved in the community, and I'm always used to talking in large groups in public, so it doesn't phase me one bit.
But you know, the one thing I think is in terms of communication is you gotta be honest. You gotta tell everything up front. Don't sugarcoat it, don't hide it. Always confront the issues head on, and be honest no matter how bad the news is. You lay it out in the open, and you don't shy from what is really out there because it turns out to be worse if you do that.
Brian: Yeah. How did you prepare on a daily basis to do those really difficult things that you do in space?
José: You know, we train a lot. We train a lot. When you get assigned to a mission, you train for 18 months for a 14-day mission. And you train quite a bit. And so sometimes you overtrain, but there's a good reason for doing that, because there's a lot of things that can go wrong up there. And so they prepare you for every contingency. Every contingency that could happen, you've simulated it and you work the issue so that when you're up there, it's not not a problem.
I'll give you an example. When you're docking to the International Space Station, this shuttle has two jets, RCS jets, they're called, Reaction Control System. They have the big ones and then they have the little ones called vernier. So when you're going to the station, you use the big jets to move as you go towards your target to connect to the station. But as you get close, you turn on the verniers. And the verniers are the small ones that you make fine adjustments as you get closer.
Well, in our case, the verniers failed. So now you're coming in and you want to do some fine tuning and you can't because you got the big hunking jets. So you go from one side to the other, to the other, to the other. And so what we practice is you're timing your approach, you're timing your approach with how it moves on the lateral position. And you want to time it such that when you're at zero feet, you're right in the middle so that you can walk.
And so that's what we did. You know, it was a pucker moment for a while, but we had practice and it was just like a simulation and we did it. Had we not practiced that, you know, maybe we wouldn't have done it correctly. And so it's those kinds of things that we gotta do.
Brian: What's the most exciting thing that happened to you or that you did while you were up there?
José: The most exciting thing that I did, I just, you know, it's just being up there. Just you know, I think the most exciting part is the most dynamic part of the mission is liftoff. Because you go from zero to 17,500 miles an hour in eight and a half minutes. I guess it's the best ride Disney can even imagine. I think they're envious of that ride because they can't replicate it.
Once you're up there in eight and a half minutes, Brian, it takes to get up into space. Yeah, you know, you're up about 240 miles above ground. Now you're traveling at that speed. You turn off your engines and you're going around the world once every 90 minutes in a continuous fashion. We were up there for 14 days. So I went around the world 217 times, which is pretty amazing. So never get tired of floating, zero G.
Brian: Wow. So we have another question here. So this is from Milne in Minneapolis. What's an important part of the story to you that couldn't be included in the film?
José: An important part of the story that couldn't be included in the film. I think it's my time at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. So I worked on three major projects at the lab. The first project was the Star Wars project, which was highlighted in the film, working on an X-ray laser defense project. The third one was going to Russia as part of the nuclear non-proliferation activities the State Department, Department of Energy, Department of Defense had, which I did. The middle project they didn't mention at all, which I'm most proud of.
If, as a matter of fact, if you point at what's my proudest professional moment, it's not being an astronaut. It's not wearing that blue suit behind me. It's that second project I worked at the lab, which was when this first project got canceled, there's about 300 of us that work in that X-ray laser program. Most everybody went off to other jobs within the lab. I didn't.
I had developed some 3D Monte Carlo X-ray transport analysis algorithms that I felt were important tools. I showed it to my boss. My boss agreed. He said, stick around because we both felt we had an answer. We didn't know what the question was. You know what the question was, Brian? It was how do you build the first full-field digital mammography system for earlier detection of breast cancer.
We helped usher in the era of medical digital imaging. And we proved that our device, that our device produced images with much more information than the traditional film screen systems doctors were using at the time. More information means earlier detection. Earlier detection means saving lives. So this device is credited with helping save hundreds of thousands, if not millions by now, of lives because it detects cancer at an earlier stage. So that's what I'm most proud of. And that was not even touched upon in the movie.
Brian: Wow. Wow. That's amazing. That that is to have such an impact, you know, where, you know, being an astronaut is, you know, down from that. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment. And thank you for doing it. That's truly amazing.
Shifting gears a little bit, you know, one of the cool parts of the movie was having Michael Pena. So for those who don't know the name off the top of your head, he's been in At Man Chips, he's in the Jack Ryan show right now.
José: He was on the Martian too.
Brian: I know, that's what I was building up to. Like, I love the Martian. He's incredible now. So like that was his prep for this role, I think. So what was it? How did you react when you first heard that he was cast? And then did you get to know him at all, work with him? How was that?
José: I recommended him. I recommended him. So I'm sure others would have recommended him in the team when we were gathering ideas. But I was the first one to pipe up and said, hey, it should be Michael Pena. And it's exactly what I said, that I love him on the Martian. He has experience being an astronaut. It should be him.
Brian: That's great. Now, did you know him at all, or how did that go?
José: I did not know him at all. Now I know him. He's a good friend now and everything. And I always tell people, you know, when I get to the point of the movie and I show the slide or the movie trailer in my presentation, before I show it, I say, Hey, it stars Michael Pena as yours truly. And I always tell people, I know what you're thinking about, I know what you're thinking. And people say, Well, what is he talking about? And I say, He's not as good looking as I am, but he's a good actor. He's a good actor.
Brian: He's a good actor. He's great. Like he's got so much like humor and he’s able to take it seriously. Was there any one point where, like, that's where he nailed it?
José: I think he did a lot. I mean, he did a lot in terms of, you know, demonstrating the perseverance I had. I think he nailed it all the way. I'll tell you another person who really nailed the character was Rosa. She played my wife, Rosa Salasad, and she played my wife, and from a character perspective, when I first saw the movie, I said, that's my wife. 'Cause you know, I can tell the personality. and she talked a lot with my wife. So she nailed my wife to the T. And then of course then there's Bobby Soto who played my cousin. I mean, he stole some scenes too. So I mean, we had some real good actors in that movie.
Brian: Yeah, yeah, that's great. Like I loved it. So if you haven't watched this on Prime Video, for those who are watching, listening, definitely go check it out. Like I loved it. It's great and very inspiring in its own right. Obviously you should still go ahead and book José for your event, but I think it's pretty amazing there.
You know, as you're going through a lot of these things and the movie comes out and everything else, what was kind of the reaction you've heard from people or anything that the movie itself inspired people in addition to your speeches?
José: I think it inspires people in a sense of looking at, they appreciate the accomplishments of, you know, becoming an astronaut. You know, becoming an astronaut is hard enough as it is, but given my starting point, I think that's where people are very appreciative of this fact to say, wow, he's he was able to do it. And I think I try to use it as a tool for empowerment.
Where I always tell people it doesn't matter where you start, it matters where you end. And so people that feel that they're at a disadvantage, I said, Well, you know, I challenge you to say you're more disadvantaged than I was. And and and so if they see that I was able to do it, it kind of empowers them to believe in themselves and say, Well, if he did it, why can't I do it? You know, what's my excuse?
And so they and they take that six ingredient recipe, that three element strategy, and they run with it and are able to set goals that are even higher than when they came in with. And that's the whole goal is to empower them and kick it up a notch.
Brian: Yeah. And one of the things I know you talk about too is that you had to believe you could do it before you could do it. And you talk about impostor syndrome, you know, syndrome, dealing with imposter syndrome. What do you share with audiences on that?
José: I always say, you know, it's okay to feel like that. It's natural to feel like that, especially when you come in, sit in a boardroom or in a meeting room, and you're the only one that looks like yourself. It's all you know, you're gonna doubt yourself. And I always tell people, do not do that, don't resist the temptation of doubting yourself.
I mean, how many times did I sit in a room being quiet when we were working on a problem and I had an idea and I didn't speak up? 20, 25 minutes later, some other guy comes up with that idea I had 25 minutes ago, and they say, John, what a great idea. And I said, Man, I should have said something. And that's what I tell people to say something now. As soon as the idea pops up, say it. There's no such thing as a bad idea.
And I always tell people, whenever you feel like you don't belong, take a safety time out on yourself and reflect on your accomplishments today. Reflect on the fact that what got you there. You know, I always said, hey, you know, no one took the finals for me when I graduated college or graduate school. No one invented the digital mammography system. It was me. And so do I belong here? Hell yeah, I belong here.
And that's what people need to do is to reassure themselves, build themselves back up and say, I belong here. I'm going to make the comments when I get that idea. I'm going to say it right away.
Brian: Yeah, that's great. And the other thing too, I like is that you've continued to grow. And so I know we're almost done with the interview here, but you know, you've continued to grow. You actually, you know, have a winery now as well. Kind of that moment here where things have, you know, obviously coming from someone with the humble beginnings to having, you know, a winery. And can you tell me about that, and how you even work that into some of your events?
José: Yeah, you know, it's kind of like a full circle moment, Brian. There's a saying you could take a kid out of the farm, but not the farm out of the kid. And when I left NASA, retired from NASA, came back, opened up my aerospace consulting firm, but I felt there was something missing and an opportunity came where I could invest and buy a vineyard, and I did.
And coming full circle with my dad, because my dad's the one that helps me. He's teaching me how to run the vineyard, or he taught me already. I already know how to run the vineyard, because I know how to pick grapes, but I didn't know how to run a vineyard. And he does, you know, he's 85, he still gets on the tractor and works on it, helps me out in the vineyard and all that.
But then you know, the folks I sell the wine to invited me on a tour and show me how to make wine. And I said, hey, this isn't rocket science. I said, I need to figure this out. And so I started, took a couple of courses at UC Davis and started making my own wine and came up with my own wine label, Tierra Luna Cellars. I stole the name from my wife's restaurant. Did give her a dollar so she wouldn't sue me, though. Thank you for a dollar, and now I make my own label, Tierra Luna Cellars. And it's on the website, direct to the consumer.
But more importantly, as you mentioned, sometimes when we have these corporate events, they have a reception before the conference, the evening before the conference. And so they pour my wine at the reception. I show up, I talk a little bit about the wine, about the winemaking process and how I got to get the vineyard and started making that wine.
And so I think it's a feel-good, full-circle moment when we talk about that and as we taste my wine varietals, which are very good by the way. You know, they've won some awards at the Los Angeles International Wine Competition.
Brian: Wow, that's amazing. That's very cool. Well, well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story, you know, from humble beginnings to NASA to being an entrepreneur, to your wife's accomplishments as well. And just being, so many books, books as well.
José: Don’t forget the books.
Brian: So, you know, I think I mentioned at the beginning, you know, the one that kind of started it all is Reaching for the Stars. Yeah, I know you've got a children's book as well. And what was the third book?
José: It's From Farm Worker to Astronaut. I take the reader on that 14-day journey to space and be known to them. I feed them the anecdotes of life that includes my father's recipes and that three element strategy, much like I do in Reaching for the Stars, which is more like a chronological biography.
Brian: That's great. Yeah. So, definitely make sure to check that out. You can see it all on his page on the premierespeakers.com website. And then also make sure to subscribe, rate, and review for this. So Jose, thank you again so much for coming on and being part of the Beyond Speaking Podcast.
José: Thank you, Brian. Appreciate it very much. And look forward to seeing you out there on the talking circuit.
Outro: Thank you for joining us for the Beyond Speaking podcast. To learn more about today's guests, visit PremiereSpeakers.com. Make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen.
