Transcript for Amanda Gore Interview on the Beyond Speaking Podcast
USA Hall of Fame speaker, and CEO of the Joy Project Amanda Gore, discusses the importance of fostering joy and emotional intelligence in the workplace. She explains how creating a safe, joyful environment can boost productivity, reduce burnout, and improve overall employee satisfaction. Amanda also shares insights on developing a growth mindset, the significance of human connections, and practical ways to build a culture of joy at work.
Podcast Episode · Beyond Speaking · June 5, 2024 · 25m
Amanda: What's showing up more and more in the corporate world is the soft skills. But those soft skills are the critical skills to connect with others. And so developing a growth mindset, if you create a safe environment at work, they're much more likely to embrace change. And if you're bringing in a lot of change, growth people with growth mindsets love change. They get excited by change. But they're this tiny little piece on the bell curve at the top, you know? The rest of the bell curve is the people who are mostly fixed, but sometimes grow, and then at the bottom of the bell curve, all fixed, full of fear, blame, excuses, all of those sorts of things.
So the growth mindset again ties into how you care for people, how safe do they feel, and how much do they feel like they belong and they fit in, and that they're valued, that their contribution is actually valued. All of those things, it's almost impossible to have a growth mindset if you're in an unsafe work environment.
Intro: Welcome to the Beyond Speaking podcast from Premiere Speakers Bureau, featuring in-depth conversations with the world's most in-demand keynote speakers.
Brian: Hi I’m Brian Lord and this is the Beyond Speaking Podcast. Our guest today is Amanda Gore. She's a businesswoman, an award-winning USA Hall of Fame speaker, CEO of the Joy Project. She's a columnist for the Huffington Post and an author. She works with organizations to reorganize or re-energize and bring joy and engagement back to people, culture, and leadership. So, Amanda, thank you so much for being on the Beyond Speaking Podcast.
Amanda: Well, thank you for having me, as usual, Brian.
Brian: Yeah, well, we've worked together for a long time. And by the way, cool accent. Are you from Alabama originally or where?
Amanda: Texas. I thought you would have picked that up straight away. I'm from down under. And you know, you guys at Premiere were so fabulous to me when I lived here for about ten years, and I've just been back for a year. And thank you, thank you for everything you've done for me.
Brian: Yeah, well, I mean, it's great to have you back in the States and helping out audiences and everything else. I'm curious to know, so I book for corporations. When you speak for corporate events, is that for wide audiences? Is it mainly for leadership groups? What are your key demographics when you speak for corporate events?
Amanda: Great question. You know, honestly, Brian, it's across the board because I don't have a set speech. I have hundreds of chunks of information I can mix and match. So for example, I did one recently for a bunch of CEO C-suite type people in construction or, you know, some pretty strong group. And had I talked about what I normally talked about, they would have thought it was way too fluffy. So I coined a new phrase called joyonomics, which is either the value of joy at work or how to make work profitable through joy, because there's a stack of research now on how a joyful workplace sells 37% better, is 31% more productive, has 150% less burnout, which is a big issue these days.
The other thing that I find is that people are forgetting. So this is for everyone, but it's kind of like a leadership group or a management group as well is that we forget we're dealing with humans. Business isn't about B2B and B2C. They're all elements, of course, but really it's H to H. It's human to human. Like when you're a leader, who are you leading? Humans. And most, you know, if you're selling, who are you selling to? Humans.
So they're principles that go across the board, but can be malleable to integrate the content that's suitable for that particular group. And quite often they'll use me to kick start an event because I spent 35 years studying group dynamics with Michael Grinder. So I learned that there is a very big difference between the content that you present, which obviously has to be relevant, appropriate, up to date, and the process by which you deliver it.
And the process is the magic that makes it memorable and changes the event. Because when you can get everybody interacting and engaged in a presentation, which is what I focus on, and you give them great content, and you give them basically a new language to use for the rest of the event. By the time they've finished, they've left their stress behind them and they're ready to learn, their hearts are open to learn, and they're already connected. And those are important things too in any event, but in the corporate world today, after COVID, people are so disconnected.
Brian: They can help people reconnect. You know, so you mentioned that. So how can people reconnect now after COVID? For this H to H?
Amanda: Well, essentially, I wish I could say, well, this is rocket science, but in fact I blend epigenetics, emotional intelligence, neuroscience, and quantum physics, because I've studied it since I was 17. It was a long time ago. and if you look at the sciences, almost all of them, and in Harvard Business Review, this is what they write about, it’s about self-awareness and about your ability to care for others.
And there's a company called Barry Waymiller that has a fabulous leadership philosophy, which is where they treat everyone in the organization as if it is someone else's precious child. So the way to connect with people is to actually care. I mean, I do blend sciences, but it's not rocket science. Think about the best leader you ever had. Of course, it's you in your case, Brian. Everybody in the organization would say that. But you know, think of the best leader you had. It wasn't somebody who said to you, Go for this KPI, which will crush you as you're doing it. No, you'll be able to do it. It's the person that you knew cared for you and was willing to help you grow and develop.
So spending time together is the other big thing in terms of connection, because we all have a magnetic field around us, and this is all science-based. And the heart field goes six feet out in a sphere from the body. And when you're interacting with someone else's heart field, so two magnetic fields interacting, then an even more powerful connection comes through. But we can do it online too, if we've got hybrid workplaces, by just genuinely caring for people.
Brian: Yeah, I love that. So you know, with the term joy, because that's obviously a big thing, can you define that for us, and what got you started into focusing on joy?
Amanda: Well, again, I would love to have some spectacularly focused story, but all I can say to you, Brian, is that maybe 15 years ago, I woke up one day and I knew I had to write a book on joy. I'm like, what do I know about joy? I was miserable at the time. And so I did a great deal of work on myself and I kept trying to write the book. And eventually I got the book written in a most unusual way, but I got it written.
And then everything just in my speaking seemed to move in that direction because it's a foundational point, really. And again, it's not rocket science, but we become so sophisticated in the business world and everything has to sound great and fancy and all that stuff, but we forget we're dealing with humans. And honestly, most humans are toddlers walking around in grown-up bodies.
And the reason the joy kind of stuck is that I could see how it related, particularly with the research that was being done, to every aspect of a company, whether it's sales, customer service, leadership, culture. If you can build a joyful culture, there's an enormous reduction in staff turnover and complaints and all that sort of thing. So it really affects the bottom line.
To me, joy isn't wandering around going, well, life's great every five seconds. For me, it's actually, and the last chapter of the book is inner peace. It was called equanimity, but nobody knew what that meant. So I had to change it to inner peace. But that's the kind of thing that summons it up. And I guess if I could make that even more succinct, for me, the real source of joy is that you feel good about yourself. And I teach that the most important thing in life is how you feel about yourself because that influences everything.
You know, think of a day where you celebrated a lot the night before and you're a touch hungover. Well, how effective are you that day? And if you're carrying around one of the three core fears that are core unconscious drivers, which almost everybody does, then every day you are triggered into a state of defensiveness or not behaving as well as you could or performing as well as you could because those fears have reflexively kicked in. So I'm not making it sound very scientific, but it's actually pretty scientific and it's provable and it works. You know, it's pretty simple to say people who are happy at work, stay there.
Brian: Mm-hmm. What are some of the ways that someone can start building a culture of joy at their work?
Amanda: Well, one of the core tenants is to make it fear-free. You know, there are still leaders who think that a fear-based environment is going to drive people to be the best. No, it's not, because they're already carrying plenty of fears themselves. So number one is to try to make it fear-free. And then actually my ex-husband was, we're great friends, was one of the most brilliant leaders I've ever met. And he was a master of connecting heart to heart with people.
And he would once a month, he would go off and have a coffee chat with them. But they all knew that the coffee chat was really a happiness chat. That's what I coined them. And he would have a happiness chat with people once every month or two months and find out what was going well and what wasn't. And that was just genius in how he achieved so many things with that one little meeting. People felt cared for, they felt heard. He learned more about what was going on in the organization at the grassroots. He could facilitate things in a different way. So that's another way where you facilitate ways for people to feel that you care.
Another is to bring in the concept of celebration on a very conscious level. So celebrating small changes. And the way that I play with that, because you know, we have to be entertaining as we present. I could stand there and be desperately serious, but people would be bored stupid. So it's better to tell a story, be a bit funny.
But have a profound message behind it. And I talk about doing ta-da-ers because when you have a little kid, as soon as they learn how to do something, grown ups teach them to say ta-da. And when somebody goes ta-da to a little kid, all the grown ups go, yay, you know, they just peed the first time. Yay, ta-da. And so they run around doing ta-da's everywhere. Well, inside, remember, we're still the toddlers.
So you could institute a ta-da-er culture, where simple little things like, you know, you get a glass fish bowl and you encourage the team to notice other people doing things that are great, that deserve a ta-da. And they put their names into the bowl. And at the end of the week, the leader pulls out a name and acknowledges Frank because he did a wonderful job, or Susie because she did something. They are really small but significant things, because the most important thing in life is how you feel about yourself.
The number one thing that people want is acknowledgement and recognition. And we all know that. It's like a proven fact, but people don't do it. Now they might take them away on an incentive trip that costs $5 billion, or I don't know, somebody wins a car. And if you do it on a day-to-day basis, then it changes the nature of the culture.
Because the leader is the one creating that culture and influencing it significantly, how the leader feels about themselves and what simple little things like this they implement, happiness chats, ta-da's, conscious connecting moments, those sorts of things. It's not, again, it's not rocket science. It's just bringing humanity back into business.
Brian: Mm-hmm. What are some of the ways that you can do the opposite? So obviously other than saying just do the wrong thing here, but what are some of the killers of joy, maybe that leaders don't even think they're doing?
Amanda: Well, let me draw you a little diagram. It'll be a bit dodgy on this, but it'll help. I studied the man, I studied the nonverbal communication, the group dynamics with Michael Grinder, who's a master of nonverbal communication. And he gave you permission to use this. So can you see the three little chairs? So in the front chair is the behavior that you want to change in a person because part of a leader's job is to change people's behavior. Behind the chair, I'll just write them all out now. Behind that behavior chair, is a fear chair. And behind that is a need.
So if you identify the fear that's driving people's behavior, you feel the need to eradicate that fear, you'll change the behavior. And so the joy killers are the fears. And the three core fears are I'm not good enough or I'm not worth loving. The second is I'm unsafe in some way. And you see how those both tie into the current cultures in workplaces. Where people are, I mean, the global culture is unsafe. And then if we have that at work as well, and that's why all the mental health issues have come up at work and psychological safety is such a big deal. And the third core fear is a sense of separation. I don't belong, I don't fit in.
And understanding those three joy killers allows you to then look at every person in your team or every colleague you have, work out which one that might be operating in that person. And then you can look at the need, which will help reduce the fear, which then changes the behavior. So the joy killers are the fears.
Brian: Yeah, that's interesting because we all carry it, as you mentioned. I mean, that's something that is certainly cutting out both at work, home, everywhere else. That's obviously a huge deal. What are you switching from that? How can you help someone have more of a growth mindset when it comes to work or helping develop that in others?
Amanda: Can I come back to that, Brian? Because just something quickly. Okay. You've got children. So one of the key things as a parent, and I try to link all of the stuff that I teach to people's home lives as well. Because if you can influence their home lives with change, they will change more at work. The goal of a parent really is to help a child leave home feeling good about themselves, which means talk to the children about those three core fears and have open discussions about it because we know from epigenetics those fears are embedded by the time we're seven.
So if you've got a zero to seven, you've got a chance of unembedding. If they're past seven, have the conscious conversation and then reinforce for the child that they are worth loving, they are good enough, and that they are safe, and that they always belong. They sound like simple things, but they're not often used.
And that actually ties into the growth mindset because a fixed mindset is in someone who's riddled with fear. A growth mindset is someone who feels good about themselves, that does practice self-care, that does have self-awareness, that is emotionally intelligent. So again, you can see that what's showing up more and more in the corporate world is the soft skills. But those soft skills are the critical skills to connect with others.
Developing a growth mindset, if you create a safe environment at work, they're much more likely to embrace change. And if you're bringing in a lot of change, growth people with growth mindsets love change. They get excited by change, but they're this tiny little piece on the bell curve at the top, you know? The rest of the bell curve is the people who are mostly fixed, but sometimes grow, and then at the bottom of the bell curve, all fixed, full of fear, blame, excuses, all of those sorts of things.
So the growth mindset again ties into how you care for people, how safe do they feel, and how much do they feel like they belong and they fit in, and that they're valued, that their contribution is actually valued. All of those things, it's almost impossible to have a growth mindset if you're in an unsafe work environment.
Brian: Yeah. And that is one of those things that it's tough to build, but very good once you have it. So one of the things too, I know that if we're talking to event planners here. What can an event planner say to someone on our committee or an executive that says topics like joy are just fluff, not something that are fit for business?
Amanda: Well, I've had that question a few times, Brian. Well, first of all, I think that statistics are pretty impressive. That you sell thirty-seven percent more, you have thirty-one percent more productivity, 150% less burnout. I think there's something like 83%, I know that's some astonishing figure, like 83% of people say the boss is the most stressful thing at work. But there's a reduction of turnover by something like 65%, I think.
So first of all, with this joinomics, if you like, there are statistics out there showing that joyful workplaces are much more profitable and much more effective. But the second reason is that I think if a meeting planner was looking at the importance of emotional intelligence, which has gone through waves, peaks and waves in the corporate world. But the bottom line is it's critical because again, we're dealing with humans.
And so I would say that joy really does matter for the bottom line. It's been shown to transform a culture. And a pretty simple statement is well, happy people stay in the one workplace. And people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses. That is another, you know, line that everybody goes, yeah, that's true. But we don't pay attention to that. So teaching leaders how to incorporate some of the principles of joy.
But remember that the whole presentation isn't just about joy. It's really about how people can feel good about themselves. And that influences everything that goes on. So it kind of ties into what the meeting planner wants to achieve from the meeting or what he or she's been given as the goal for the event and for the session.
And the other thing is to consider what I always say to people: if you look at the group process not just the content, that's what really matters. So if you're looking for a keynote experience or a workshop experience where people actually change and they lose the stress, they lighten up, but they're learning stuff and they're interacting with each other all the time, all of that creates an experience that transforms what's going on and makes the event memorable and kick starts you on a high or finishes you on a high.
Brian: So it's kind of a blend. It's not just the joy, but it's the joy plus, or the concept of joy plus the interaction, plus the creating experience, plus the process, plus I'm easy to work with. That's good. That's very true. I know, and we've always gotten that from event planners who've had you in the past and just the humor that goes with it. I know that's one of those things that you never like to be funny when you're doing an interview. But just so for people watching and listening, you know, there is a lot of humor to Amanda's presentation, and something that is a lot of fun and actually brings that joy with it.
So all right, so Amanda, if you are a quantum physics person you've been studying since you were seventeen. What do you think of Marvel and their use of quantum physics in making everything quantum in the Marvel universe?
Amanda: Well, there's their quantum and other quantum. And I have to say I'm not a huge watcher of Marvel movies. However, I've seen a couple of bits and pieces here and there. And it's so interesting, Brian, because people don't think quantum physics applies to anything except woo-woo, wacky, out space type things. But the bottom line is it's the proof that we're all connected all the time.
And I like to use a simple example that's, you know, you haven't heard from Mary for three months, five months, and you used to talk every week. And you suddenly think, wow, I haven't heard from Mary. What happens the next day? Mary calls you. And we are connected like that all the time. And I wish I had my sparkly bits here with me.
But one of the things I speak about when I'm talking about communication is that we all walk around with invisible fish bowls on our heads. And in the fish bowls are my sparkly bits. And my sparkly bits and your sparkly bits talk to each other all the time. And what's coming out of my mouth doesn't match what's coming out of my sparkly bits. Guess what you pick up?
Brian: Just that vibe or whatever.
Amanda: Always. Sparkly bits. So what I have, because that's one of the other things I do, I have symbols. People don't remember words, they remember symbols. So I have, I'm packing to move house, so I haven't got anything around me at the moment, but I have a big set of heart-shaped glasses, which are my gratitude glasses, which people kill to get to remind them to look at the world with gratitude.
But I have these headbands with sparkly, shiny pom-pom things on the end, like cheerleader things. And I'll put them on and I'll say these sparkly bits are the most important thing anyone will ever teach about communicating. Because they are. And think about it, your least favorite person walks into the room, or you're going to have a Zoom meeting with them, or some other digital form of connection. And if you're really honest, you're not sitting there saying to yourself, fabulous, fabulous. Here's an opportunity to practice forgiveness, compassion, and love. No, you're not thinking that. You're thinking, no, die now, die now. Not today, not today. But your mouth goes, hi. And the problem is they hear everything.
So in the quantum world, that's another example of it as well. But I'm sorry I can't directly address the Marvel question. If you want to give me a specific thing, I could talk to you about it.
Brian: Well, I don't know anything off the top of my head, but whenever I think of that, that's like I've read up about it and different things and where that comes in. And to me, it's interesting. So if you do check out Marvel, because it's that again, that's too big a question for that. But yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing that bit of quantum physics that most of us probably don't know, like quantum communication. I like it.
And really quick for all the sci fi fans. But one of the jokes the movie has is, there is this guy who's an outsider who is talking to scientists, and he goes, Do you just put quantum in front of everything? So that's one of his jokes. And so anyway, so Paul Rudd, that's his joke.
So Amanda, thank you so much for coming on and being part of the Beyond Speaking Podcast. And for those watching, listening, you can go to premierespeakers.com and check out Amanda Gore's information there—videos, bios, speech topics, everything else. And of course, with the speech topics, she customizes everything for you. So Amanda, once again, thank you so much for being part of the Beyond Speaking Podcast.
Amanda: You're so sweet. Thank you, Brian, for having me. And I know everybody says that they customize, but actually really do. And Premiere are great. They're a wonderful bureau. Lots of wonderful people. And I'm not saying that just to suck up. I've known you all for a very long time, and I love you all.
Brian: Well, thank you so much, Amanda. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Outro: Thank you for joining us for the Beyond Speaking podcast. To learn more about today's guests, visit PremiereSpeakers.com. Be sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen.
