Mark Allen - Adjusting Your Goals

Transcript

Intro:

Welcome to Beyond Speaking with Brian Lord, a podcast featuring deeper conversations with the world's top speakers.

Brian Lord:

Hi, I'm Brian Lord, your host of the Beyond Speaking podcast. And today we have on Mark Allen, which is extremely cool for me. I'm a really low-level triathlete. And Mark is like one of the best in all of history. So you've got, you know, Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretzky, all rolled into one. ESPN voted him as one of the- as the greatest endurance athlete ever. One of the top 12 athletes of all time in American sports history six-time a World IRONMAN Champion. He's also a really successful coach with his business and a speaker that I've booked for probably 10 years now. So Mark, thank you so much for coming on to the Beyond Speaking podcast.

Mark Allen:

Hey, thanks for having me on Brian and you are more than just like a low-level triathlete. You have a passion for it, and passion is as you know, with anything is what creates great experiences. So yeah, happy to be on.

Brian Lord:

Well, that's great. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. So one of the things that a lot of people don't know about you the first and this may be the first time some people are hearing about you and they just hear six-time World IRONMAN champion, and they think, "Wow, this guy just must be gifted. He's just thin. And he can run all day and he can bike all day and swim all day." Also for those who don't know, IRONMAN is a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and then at the very end you do a marathon. So 26.2 miles and in the grueling heat and humidity of of Kona, Hawai'i is where the World IRONMAN Championship has been for, you know, 40 some years. And you know, Mark's one of the most dominant ever to do it. And, but it is something that is extremely difficult every time. So just one time winning is, is really difficult. Six times in a row was amazing, but it was so hard when- a lot of people know- it was so hard for you to get there and you had to fail so many times. So I guess, take us back before that first victory kind of, where did you get started with it and what was it like those six years leading up to when you finally broke through?

Mark Allen:

Well, the first year that I even knew anything about IRONMAN was in 1982, I was 24 years old. I'd been out of college for two years and I was kind of searching for my career path as you know, sometimes it doesn't always work out just because you have a degree that you're all of a sudden slotted into something amazing. And one Saturday afternoon in February of 1982, I was watching Wide World of Sports, which, you know, back in the early eighties, the entire nation stopped to see what Jim McKay was going to say about some amazing sporting event. This particular Saturday afternoon, it was, they were showing the IRONMAN triathlon. And it was, I had never heard of a triathlon before. I'd never heard of the IRONMAN. And Jim McKay is counting the distances. Like you just said, it's a 2.4 mile open ocean water swim, 112 mile bike ride along the very hot, windy, desolate West side of the Big Island of Hawai'i. And then after that 112 mile bike ride, you do a marathon starting, you know, for the top folks, right in the heat of the day, 26.2 miles. And I was watching it and I thought, "How many days does it take these crazy people to finish this thing?" And you know, then I found out they start at seven in the morning and they have to finish by midnight, 17 hours later to be an official finisher. And I thought there is no way a human body can possibly do that. But of course, as I'm watching this program on Wide World of Sports, these seemingly ordinary people were crossing that amazing and extraordinary finish line. And about two weeks after that, I thought, "You know what? I need to go there and see if somehow I can cross that finish line." I had done competitive swimming growing up and so I had that as kind of a base, a sports base, but I was, I was pretty mediocre as a swimmer to be honest. And so anyway, I, about eight months later, I was on the start line of the IRONMAN in Hawai'i. And that very first year I actually found myself in the lead with the best guy in the world at the time a guy named Dave Scott halfway through the bike ride. And we were together, we were in the lead, there was only, you know, the next competitors were about five minutes behind us. And of course I am completely ecstatic because I just got went there to finish. And I'm with the guy in the world who was setting the standard at the time. And he and I had never talked to each other, you know? And so just past the halfway point of the bike ride, I pulled up next to him and then I turned over to him and I go, Hey, Dave you know, when we're done with the bike, you want to go for a run. I figured, you know, great opener for the conversation with a champion. He looks over at me and he goes, who are you? Well, my name is Mark Allen. And he goes, Oh, I think I've heard of you. And he clicked his biking into a big gear and he took off. So I figured, well, you know, conversation with the champions over, I clicked my bike into a big gear and I heard this horrendous clanking and chattering. And I looked down and my derailer, the part of my bike that changes the gears had completely broken off and was dragging on the ground. So offroad Dave Scott, he actually won his second IRONMAN title that year over his career. He won six IRONMAN titles. My race was done halfway through the bike ride. So I didn't achieve that initial dream of crossing the finish line of being an IRONMAN finisher, but I've been with the best guy in the world for, you know, a few hours of racing. And so that was actually when the, the real dream was born. That maybe if I take my time to develop my skills as a triathlete, I can be the champion of this incredible event. Well, you know, as you know, the great dreams and goals in life do not happen at the speed of Twitter. It really does take time and persistence and steadiness and, you know, continually adjusting your strategy of how you are going to get to that end dream goal. And I, you know, the first six years that I did, I did race in Kona, other, you know, after that first did not finish, I finished in second. I finished in third, I finished in fifth. I could be in the lead part way through the bike ride at the end of the bike ride halfway through the marathon at near the end with just a few miles left in the marathon. But I was always falling apart and getting passed by another competitor. Usually it was Dave Scott. And so six years of devoting my life to that singular goal of becoming a world champion, I had zero victories. And, you know, you have to understand that, you know, obviously it's a lot of training that goes into it. It's a lot of dedication. There's a lot of my- other aspects of my life that I sacrifice to have the energy, to put into this goal that does have meaning for me. But at that point, after six years, you know, my family and friends, those people that I rely on to tell me those things about myself, that I'm unwilling to actually see, they said, "Don't go back there. I mean, how many times are you going to beat your head against the wall, go to the races for you have shown that you can win where you can beat Dave Scott. Don't go back to Hawai'i. There's something about it that's not for you." And I was really close to saying, 'Yeah, you're all right." But then I stepped back in 1989 before I started training that year and I asked myself, "Should I go back or not?" And I realized there was one reason that I did need to go back. And that simple reason was that I had never had my best race. You know, you know that we have so many goals that we put in place... Some of them are big quantifiable goals that yes, if I hit the standard in my work, that means that I have achieved a certain level of output, a certain level ofrevenue. You know, I have made it to top of the table or whatever standard that you're shooting for. You know, I'm number one in my company, whatever it is. But there is those intrinsic things that still have meaning that have nothing to do with whether you're first or last. And it's more about knowing that you had, you got the best out of yourself that you could, and I had never done that. And so in 1989, as I prepared for my seventh IRONMAN, I said, "Okay, first of all, I need to clarify what it is about my training that's not quite right, because I knew that there had to be something right. And I said I have to be willing to make changes. Not, not only to my training, but also to maybe what has the top purpose in this year for me. And that purpose really get the best out of yourself. Show up in Kona in the best shape, you can have a strong swim, a strong bike and a strong run. You know, I had finished running the marathon only twice out of those first six races. Only two times had I run the entire marathon. The other four, I ended up walking. If you're walking the marathon in Hawai'i at the IRONMAN World Championships, you're not going to be number one, I guarantee you. And so that was a big shift and it actually took the pressure off because I realized only one person is going to win that race. You know? So does that mean that everybody else in the race had a terrible day that it had no meaning that it was a failure? Absolutely not. And so that really, I think drew drew me back into a place of, to go into that race in a sense of power in a way, because nobody could take away my best performance. You know, somebody might take away the win, but nobody could take away my best performance. And that's something that I think really applies to what's going on now with, with COVID. You know, a lot of how we have done business, a lot of the goals that we had may not be ones that we're going to achieve simply because of restrictions, because of changes in how our work is done. Or maybe because we don't even have the same work that we had for many, many years. And so we have to sort of draw back and ask ourselves, "Okay, I don't want to give up on a dream. So what is the dream going to be? And then what is the work going to be that might be different than how I have achieved those levels of fulfillment and success in the past? What are the things that I'm going to have to change? Is there something that maybe I need to see about- let's say my work- the way I do my work that just gives me intrinsic fulfillment day in and day out to achieve those very, maybe small successes that aren't the big goal, you know." Athletically think about it this year. There have been almost no triathlons. There's been almost no marathons. There have been very, you know, they had the Tour de France, but there were no fans basically, right? And so things have taken on a different complexion, but each of us can still do something positive for ourselves each and every day, whether it's in our work, if you're an athlete in just keeping training and fit and a base of, and foundation of health that will then propel you forward when things do start to come back into play. So that, you know, it was a long journey to get to 1989 where I did win that first IRONMAN World Championship. And that's, that's a whole story in itself, but I think one of the main takeaways from that is just first of all, to really hold onto that dream and take it all the way to completion. You know, if we give up, if we say, "Forget it, it's not worth it." Certainly we will never achieve those great dreams. But we might have to overcome challenges. We may have to change the way we do our work. We may have to change something about ourselves that has been getting in the way of how we manage challenge, for example you know, if... I was afraid of Dave Scott- I'm gonna take it back to racing day. Dave Scott was somebody that I was afraid of. He was so strong in Kona at the IRONMAN in Hawai'i, and I couldn't see myself winning unless he had a bad race, but Dave Scott is not going to have a bad race. It is not your competitor's job to have a bad day. It is their job to have their best day. And then it's up to you to see if you can be one step better than them. And so in 1989, you know, I just realized, you know what, I'm still going to be afraid of that guy, but I have to be able to go there and just say, "I'm going to have my best race anyway." And that's kind of how it is now. You know, a lot of- it's very easy to get stuck in looking at, let's say a fear. "I Don't know if I'm going to have a job. I don't know if I will be able to work the same way, have the same level of income that I've had in the past. You know, what is the answer? How can I go forward? I can't do the thing-" All of that is focusing on what I can't do.

Brian Lord:

Mhmm.

Mark Allen:

Bring it back to that point of "What can I do?" If you're an athlete? Well, I can work out at home. Gym clothes, I'll get some stretch cords, I'll get some free weights. I'll just do it in my living room. You know, adapt and modify, adjust. And as we do that, we become resilient instead of breaking. And that's an important element of what- for me personally, and a lot of people that I've spoken with over these last nine months or so. `

Brian Lord:

So I did get some questions. We had a lot of people who were excited about this interview. And so I did have some questions. So if it's all right with you, I'll run through a few of those and then we'll get back to some other points.

Mark Allen:

Absolutely.

Brian Lord:

So this one is from Alicia Clawpeak: When you get that fatigue that comes with failure, what steps do you take to break free?

Mark Allen:

That's a great, great question. You know, when you experience a failure, you also, you also get a lot of times like a weakness. You know, when you, when you achieve that dream, you are so filled up with energy and it's like, you almost want to go out the next day and do it again. Right. But when you have "failed" and I put that in quotes it can be, it's like draining. You don't, you don't get that charge because if certainly if you've put in a lot of work and you feel like you are ready for the success level of success that you are after, and you fall short, it's disappointing. And I'm going to tell you a secret, Brian, every world champion has experienced failure. Every world champion has experienced disappointment, setback, times four, they have had to step back, regroup and go, "Okay. That sucked. I had the worst day of my life. And I thought I was ready for a record, a personal best, a gold medal, a podium finish, whatever it is..." And so to get back to that, that question, the way I managed that was to give myself time to, yes, just be disappointed to be bummed, to be pissed. You know, like I didn't do it, you know, and then give myself space. One week, two weeks, whatever it took to get some distance from that experience. Because as you know, things are very intense in the moment that they happen and we want to come up with a solution in that moment of intensity. And if it's a negative moment, the solutions we come up with will probably not be the ones that will really truly take us forward to help us take our dreams all the way to completion. And so I would give myself a week or two weeks, whatever amount of time it took to just get some distance from the intensity of feeling that disappointment. And then I would start to reflect back and go, "Okay, what really went on out there? Why did I fall short? What do I need to adjust or change in the way that I prepare so that, that doesn't happen again?" And most importantly, I would ask myself, "What is it that I learned from that negative experience?" And here's an example: In one of my early IRONMANs, I was- I had a 12 and a half minute lead over Dave Scott, the best guy in the world, starting the marathon and, you know, 12 and a half minutes. That's a lot of time to make up even in 26 miles. Right? And so I was running through the town of Kona and the first 10k of the marathon. And there are thousands of people cheering. And, you know, I was high fivin' and I thought "I've got this thing" cause I was in the lead and know no way Scott, Scott's going to catch me. And I climbed- there's about a three-quarter mile long Hill that takes you out of the town of Kona and dumps you out onto this highway. The Queen Ka'ahumanu Highway, which is hot desolate, black barren lava. And there are not fans cheering out there. The course is closed out there. So it's you and lava and 20 miles of running. And the only respite you get is every mile, there's an aid station where you can get some- replenish your energy stores or whatever. So anyway, I made that turn out onto the lava and going up the hill at the bottom, I felt like I was going to be the champ when I got to the top of the hill and looked out at those 20 miles of desolate lava, all of the energy in my body drained out. And I thought "I'm going to be walking. I just know it. Something's not right. I didn't do it right." I went too hard on the bike and sure enough, eventually at about 20 miles into it, day, Scott did pass me. And I was walking and I was barely walking. I had a choice. I could just give up and I could quit. I could give up, I could just make it to the finish, but not give it energy, just slog my way through, walk through it. But I thought, "You know what? I want to cross that finish line and I want to cross it [proudly]." And so I said, my body's in about a 20% situation here of what I could do on a good day. I'm going to get a hundred percent out of this 20%. And so when I was walking, I walked as fast as I could. And then my energy would come back a little bit and then I could jog and I jogged as fast as I could until I couldn't hold it. And then I would walk again, but I would walk as fast as I could. And I got to the finish line finishing in fifth place. The next night at the award ceremony they brought up the top five competitors, men and women in the professional field to receive their awards. So I was, you know, the last of the five. And when I came up, I got some of the most heartfelt applause ever because people saw that I had struggled out there, but they saw that I also hadn't given up. And so there was this real lesson that I learned of give everything you have, regardless of whether it looks like your goal is in reach or not. Because when you do that, you are going to be able to hold your head high and say, yes, that was the best that I could get out of myself on that day. So fast-forward to the years where I am looking- it is looking like I'm going to actually win. There were moments in those races where my body was working at a hundred percent, but then there were moments where it- my energy and things would dip and I'd be working at maybe 70, or maybe even only 60% of my peak capacity. But because I had learned how to get a hundred percent out of no matter what state, I was in, I kept moving as fast as I could in those low moments. And eventually, I would come back up. And because of that, I never gave up in those, in those down moments in those years that I did win and I did win six IRONMAN Triathlon World Championships in six starts because of that lesson. So to bring it way, way, way back, you know, ask- Alicia, ask yourself, I had that lousy, whatever it is, race, a day at work, you know, time in a relationship, whatever it is, give yourself a moment to just feel the disappointment. That's okay. We're human. It's okay to be disappointed, give yourself distance and then go, "Okay, what did I learn? And what do I need to change? Now, let me regroup and move forward."

Brian Lord:

Great. And that, that is, that is powerful. And it's, what's funny as you answer the next two questions from Bruce Denari and Daniel Barnum about the same, about the same thing. So what- a personal tip. So this, this last one is out of the listener questions from David Vinson: What mindset tips would you give someone on the verge of not breaking through or breaking through their own personal wall?

Mark Allen:

Well, one thing is to be clear about your dream. You know, what is it that you're really after and why is it fulfilling to you? What gives that journey purpose to try for it? You know, and the journey itself has to have importance. So, you know, if the only reason I was racing was to win the IRONMAN, I would have had six years years of where I would have felt like I was wasting my life. But I also saw during those years where I wasn't winning, I was still perfe cting myself a little bit. I was getting a little bit better, you know? And so if you feel like you're close to that breakthrough, but you can't get it yet. First of all, ask yourself, clarify to yourself, "Am I doing the right kind of work to achieve the goals that I'm after?" Because a lot of them, people let's say in the sport of triathlon want to win the IRONMAN, but very few of them are willing to do the work required of it. You know, those are two different- very different things. A lot of people would love to be the IRONMAN Champ, but they are not willing to have the patients to put in that day in and day out work that is required to be in a kind of shape physically and mentally to actually become an IRONMAN champion. So what, what is that work? What does that daily work? A second thing is to ask yourself, "Is there something and that I need to change about that work? Is there an adjustment to my strategy that I need to implement? Is there something missing or is there something about me as a person? That's let me back from that success that I am after? Is there something that I'm afraid of? How do I, even if I have that fear not let it hold me back?" And then so many times we're, we're right at that point where you can feel it's right there, you know, and we don't know how to bridge that last little inch to bring it into form, to bring it to fruition, to bring it into realizing the dream that we're after. And sometimes the answer isn't going to be logical. That will be that last little piece you stick in there that locks you in, and there's no way anybody can take it away from you. And so how do you find that piece? A lot of times people think it's going to come through a logical analysis, you know, but life's big dreams often are not exactly a logical analysis kind of situation or solution. And so step back and just daydream and maybe go for a walk or go out in nature and, and sort of let your mind flow a little bit and maybe don't try to come up with that solution that's gonna lock everything in place because here's a great, great quote: Albert Einstein and said that some of his most amazing insights came when he was riding a bicycle. It wasn't when he was at the chalkboard, working out the equations, it was when he was kind of daydreaming. And science has actually shown that the creative problem-solving part of our brain is working at its best when we are daydreaming. So there's a real value in just stepping back and getting into that space of what I call quiet and quiet is truly like where the champion's mindset is. [Exhales sharply] Take a breath. Get your mind to be quiet, stop the chatter, stop the search for a solution. There's the quiet. When you're quiet, that's when real insights can come. So let me take it back to sport. 1989, I'm in the IRONMAN triathlon, my seventh attempt. Dave Scott and I swam the entire swim course together. We swam, we rode the entire 112-mile bike ride together. We ran mile after mile after mile of the marathon side-by-side. We took the lead from the last person that had been ahead of us about mile 13. One of us was going to win. We were on a record pace. We were going to shatter Dave Scott's previous world record. He had won six IRONMAN titles. I was at zero. You know, and there's- you have to, you have to imagine this picture- this we're on the Queen Ka'ahumanu Highway which is a big road, and we are bumping into each other. There's plenty of room, but we're bumping into each other because neither of us wants to give an inch or a second advantage to the other one because at that point of the race, an inch loss can be the race lost. And so we're both strategizing and trying to figure out how am I going to break this guy? And I could just feel that there was no trick or surge or little quirky thing that I could pull that would intimidate Dave to give up. He was going to be completely solid. I had to just completely outrace him if I was going to be able to beat him. And I could see that I was stronger on the upgrades, but he was stronger on the, on the, down on the downgrades. And as the course goes, it's kind of rolling, but it's not dramatic. And so neither of us was able to use our strengths to, to pull away from the other one. At mile 24.5 Of the marathon, there was one big, long uphill. It was about three-quarters of a mile that leads you up to the last bit of the lava- "Queen K" Highway. You make a right turn. You drop down the steep hill on the other side, go down into the town of Kona. And then you do one last little stretch that takes you to the finish line Both Dave and I knew that that Hill was where the break was going to have to happen. It was the only terrain feature, big enough to have either of us take advantage of our strengths. Me on the uphill or him on the downhill .n the other side, at the bottom of that hill, as we approached, I saw that there was an aid station now conventional wisdom. The logic says at that point of the marathon, you're really running on fumes, you need to just take one last little glass of Gatorade or sports drink or something. Get a little bit of fuel in the tank and then take off. Dave Scott knew this, too. He knew that was a strategy. We were together. The first person to get through the aid station is the one who guaranteed gets what they need. The second one coming right behind the first one, sometimes the aid station volunteers get, get rattled and yeah, mixed up and they try to give it to your cup to you. And that falls, and you don't, you don't get what you need. And so Dave knew this and he's a smart guy and he raced to the front and got to the aid station right in front of me and put his hand out to grab his last glass of fuel. I started to come in behind him to take my last glass of fuel. And I have to emphasize: at this point, my mind was quiet because I knew this was the place the break was going to take place. I went in to grab that last glass and something inside of me just said, "Go!" And I pulled my hand back and started sprinting- as best as I could at the end of an IRONMAN- I started sprinting. And in the few seconds it took Dave to reach over, grab his glass of sports drink and look back, I'd put a gap of five or six feet on him, and you can see it on the footage. All of a sudden it completely blew his mind that I was taken off and his shoulders start to come up. He starts to rock. He was having to deal with the fear of something that he had never had to deal with before. Somebody who was stronger than him at the very end of the race. And I- the gap opened up, it got farther and farther. I was moving ahead of him. He was falling further behind. I got to the top of the Hill before him, but I knew that was not- I hadn't sealed the deal yet. I had to get to the bottom of the downhill, where he was strong. I got to the bottom of the downhill. I looked back and I couldn't see him. And then I knew that I had it. And I went on made that last little stretch, got to the finish line before Dave. First victory out of six. Dave Scott had his best race that day. He broke his previous world record by 17 minutes. I did my best time on that day by almost 30 minutes. And the difference in our times at the end was 58 seconds. Very small difference on a very long, long day. But to bring it back to that question, how do you, how do you make that last little step when you're so close to achieving something that you know is just an inch away from you that you can't quite grasp? That came in that moment when I did something that was in, in retrospect, the perfect solution, but one that I could have never thought of logically. Don't take that last glass because that's a risk. I might run out of gas. And so sometimes that's what- that's when the solutions are going to come. Get quiet. See if there's an answer that you have never thought of, or that you know, that you probably wouldn't have thought of through logic, put it in place and just see if it works. And sometimes it's just as simple as just get the heck going and take it home.

Brian Lord:

[Laughing] So we're, we're doing this interview now here during the time of COVID and everything else and a lot of companies, a lot of people are asking you, what can I do to be healthy? So we're talking to, you know, ESPN's greatest endurance athlete ever, you know, six-time, a World IRONMAN champion Mark Allen here. What advice would you give about being healthy during this time?

Mark Allen:

Well, one of the simplest things is to just remember the, you know, some of the foundations of staying healthy, you have to move your body, you know, make it a commitment each and every day that you will do a little something in the morning. Maybe you'll do a little something in the afternoon. Workouts don't have to be long. They don't have to be intense. They don't have to be fast, but to just move your body stimulates your immune system so that you are stronger, it keeps you healthier. It reduces stress. Go for a walk, go for a hike, go for a run sit on your stationary bike at home if that's what works best for you. There're so many classes online that, you know- you can, you can get yoga classes, you can get stretching classes, you can do any kind of... You can find anything you want online so that you can do stuff at home because a lot of gyms are closed. But make it a commitment to yourself. A no excuses, commitment that each day I will do a little something. It doesn't have to be a five-hour bike ride. It can be a 20-minute walk. It can be a 30-minute walk. It can be using some stretch cords and some bodyweight movement to make your muscles stronger. So, One: have a commitment to move. The second is to really try to attend to your sleep. You know, sleep is not only how we regenerate our bodies, but it's also how all of the neurotransmitters in our brains regenerate. Because just like your muscles, your brain needs to regenerate at night with good quality sleep, which we might need a little bit more of now because COVID is kind of like a, it's like an added low-stress, low-grade stress that's sort of constant. That's just not going away. And that none of us know where the endpoint is. And so just maybe try to give yourself 30 minutes more at night. So stop the social media, searching 30 minutes earlier, you know, turn off the news network, which is hard because we just know for example came out of the election and I was glued to the TV set day and night, just waiting for the results to be finalized one way or the other. And sleep is absolutely key. And then also you know, emotionally or mentally, there are some aspects that are very important. You know, try to- I've tried to really focus on just the small day-to-day successes that I can do each and every day. You know, it might be a while before I... I mean, I love speaking to two companies at conferences. They're probably not going to be many of those coming up. So what are some of the small, daily successes that I can put in place in relation to my speaking, in relation to my coaching, in relation to just doing something positive for myself each and every day. I, as best as possible, I try to go, just stop for a moment when the sun is setting and just go, okay, another day. I made it through. Awesome! You know, so, you know, find those, find those just small daily successes of things that you can say, "Okay. Yeah. Maybe I didn't achieve the big one, but I did that small thing today." And that really helps build a sense of self-worth and keeps that self-esteem up. And you realize that it's not maybe ideal, but it still is- you've done something positive for yourself. And then for sure, focusing on what you can do. Maybe nine-tenths of what you normally do is off the charts or off the books at the moment. What can I do? What can I do that's positive for myself? And then ultimately just a reminder to everybody who's listening to this or watching this to trust, you know? This is not your first rodeo. You have made it through difficult times before. Difficult moments where things look impossible or where a dream looks like it's completely out of reach. You have made it through. You're going to make it through this time also. But the key is to ask yourself, "How do I want to make it through it? Do I just want to make it through COVID and just sort of like, 'okay, it's behind me. Now, let me get back to normal.'" Or can this period become one of the richest in your life, in the sense of learning lessons of how to be adaptable, how to assess what might have importance for you and purpose and meaning that you never thought did before, because you never had the time to actually sit down and reflect, you know? And so what are the lessons of richness that you will take from this time, that then you will be able to use when you're winning your six IRONMANs in the future, you know? And so that's really just that thing of trust.

 

Beyond Speaking is hosted by Brian Lord and produced by Eric Woodie