What's Happening in Afghanistan? Stories from Believers on the Ground with Jennie and Pastor X

August 20, 2021

Jennie Allen

Bible teacher, founder of IF:Gathering

Jennie: So I'm recording this on the night that we were supposed to air an incredible interview that was life-changing for me. We had technical difficulties... there are tech demons! At IF:Gathering, our whole ministry is tech. I cannot tell you how many safeguards we had in place, and y'all crashed the internet. So thank you for being part of this! Thank you for being patient with us. We are certain that this is important, and we know that God is with us, for us, and for those who are in danger today. We just want to rally to love them and support them in every way. Right now, tonight, thousands and thousands of Afghans will go to sleep, and they will be despairing and praying, "Does anybody see us? Does anybody see us?"

Guys, we see them. We see them. You're going to hear this interview, and it is going to be so powerful. You're going to be convicted. It is going to, I believe, help shape our view of discipleship in the West, but we're also going to rally behind our Afghan brothers and sisters. This team, Global Catalytic Ministries, has direct access to names on the ground that they can get funds to. Every dime that you give to this is going to help these people feel seen and get out of there, or if they feel called to stay or can't leave, it will help get them the resources that they need. We believe in this work. I mean, I just know the enemy comes after things like this.

We are a tech company; we know how to keep things up. We have millions of people that watch IF:Gathering, and we keep the stream up. Yet, I know there's dark forces. "Dark cosmic forces." I am going to bed smiling tonight knowing that the people of God are plentiful around the Earth, and I know we can come together to support each other and come around those that are suffering. I love you guys. I am so grateful to get to do this work, and I'm so grateful for those of you that are teammates of mine. I've never met you, but we've done this podcast together for a long time, and we've done IF:Gathering for a long time. I know that right now, I'm wandering around outside and I've had a good cry tonight because it didn't go how we wanted. I know that God is doing what He wants to do with this in his powerful way, so I'm trusting that this podcast will reach even further than our livestream would have last night. I'm believing that this will raise even more money than we would have raised last night. So let's do this!

THE UNDERGROUND CHURCH IS GROWING

Throughout history, persecution has always grown the church. What if I told you that the fastest growing churches in the world are actually happening in the 10 most dangerous countries for a Christian to live? Number one on the list: Iran. When the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power over 40 years ago, Iranians saw the true face of radical Islam. Now those mosques are empty. Why? God is moving powerfully inside of Iran. The Iranian people are meeting Jesus through dreams, visions, and power encounters. There are an estimated 1 million believers in Iran, alone. Men and women in the underground church are bringing the Gospel to people who have experienced Jesus for themselves. This church movement has no bank account, no 501(c)(3)s, no centralized leadership, no denominations, no church buildings, or seminaries. If any one of them is caught, they could be executed or in prison. Yet, it is exploding. It's currently being led by former prostitutes, drug lords, Islamic radicals, and many of them women.

MEET PASTOR X AND STEVE FROM GLOBAL CATALYTIC MINISTRIES

My name is Jennie Allen, and I'm the founder and visionary of an organization called IF:Gathering. We disciple women across the world. I was introduced to Pastor X several months ago. Pastor X is on the ground in the Middle East, and he has been a part of the incredible movement of God that is happening there. There are faster growing churches in these countries, many of them, than anywhere else in the world. The church is exploding in the Middle East. If you haven't heard that story, I would really encourage you to watch our interview that we did a few months ago. It is incredible and we'll provide links for you to watch it. Steve Trevino is part of Pastor X's team. You're going to get to know both of them, but they reached out after last Monday when the Taliban took control of Afghanistan.

They have church leaders on the ground in Afghanistan, and they're in direct correspondence with them. They actually are in correspondence with people on the ground that they love, that they know by name, that they care about, and those people are literally running for their lives. I wanted you to hear the story from them. I wanted you to hear what God is doing there. They are not hopeless. In fact, the courage that I am hearing out of Afghanistan is just incredible. So before we get started, let me introduce both of these men to you. Steve Trevino is one of the leaders on the US side for a ministry called Global Catalytic Ministries, and he is an ambassador for the work that's happening over there. Steve, tell everybody a little bit about what you do.

Steve Trevino: Hey Jennie, thank you so much for having us and thank you for your heart. We really appreciate you guys, and everything that you have done. You guys have really sprung to action here. We are a small leadership team, and we are helping lead and grow the fastest growing movement of Christianity in the world today. We have leaders in Iran, and as many of you may know, there's been a lot of press, and a lot of buzz, because Iran is the fastest growing church in the world right now. All of our leaders in Iran are training leaders in Afghanistan. These are indigenous leaders, local leaders, and Afghanistan is the second fastest growing church in the world. We're really humbled and grateful just to be a part of this, God's doing it. We like to say that He just gives us a front row seat, and we get to watch it happen. So we're here today because obviously, our hearts are broken like everyone else's, and we're seeing this incredible chaos. I think that together, as the body of Christ, we have an opportunity to really make a significant impact.

Jennie: So Pastor X, if people have not heard your story, talk just a little bit high level about what you've gotten to be a part of in the last decade, over in the Middle East?

Pastor X: First, I just want to thank you Jennie, for having this call and making it happen so quickly. Our hearts are just devastated by what's happening with our brothers and sisters inside of Afghanistan. My story is that I came from the West. I was born in the West. I grew up in the West. I grew up in the church, and I was a Christian since I was nine years old. I grew up in the church, and I saw what happened and always said to myself, "There has to be more to the church." So I left the church when I was 16, and I went into the world. When I was 23, I came back and started working for a church. That's how I met my wife.

My wife was born in a Middle Eastern country, and she followed Islam since she was three years old. She wore the burka at age five, she read the Qur'an at the age of nine, and she memorized the Qur'an at the age of 13. She went to an Islamic fundamentalist school for women. At the age of 17, she became an evangelist for Islam and religious police in that country. She tried to commit suicide because she could not get close to God and was upset, and her mom had been diagnosed with MS. Her MS goes so quickly that she loses control of her legs, her eyes are drooping, and she's drooling, and so my wife tries to kill herself again. Her mom stops her, her family stops her, and she's like, "Look, if you won't let me commit suicide in the freedom of my own home, I'll do it in the streets." She was fighting with her mom, and she said, "Look, you're dying. I want to kill myself. Let's commit suicide together."

They made a suicide pact. On a Friday night, they kick her father out. They kick the sister out. They're about to turn on the natural gas and take sleeping pills, and they turn on a program. This is the same program I was a camera man on, and the program said, "My brothers and sisters, why do you want to kill yourself tonight? Jesus wants to change your life." So she said, "I'm going to call these infidels, prove that Jesus is dead, and then kill myself, so I can be the first person to go in front of our Lord and say, "I was perfect in your law."" She calls the program, and her mom speaks to the person, and after 20 minutes, she comes to Christ. My wife is furious, how dare you blaspheme Muhammad? How dare you do this on the night of our suicide. Why'd you do this?" And her mom starts crying and says, "Please talk to the Pastor." And she says, "I'm not going to talk to the pastor." Her mom says, "My last wish is that you talk to the Pastor."

Because of honor and shame, she talks to the Pastor. After two hours of talking, the Pastor could not convince her to come to Christ. So the Pastor says, "Look, you've served Allah all your life, the fruit of it is that you're depressed, suicidal, and you want to kill yourself. Your mom has MS, and she's dying. Give Jesus one week, and if he does not do anything, go ahead and kill yourself." So she said herself, "Okay, I'll accept this challenge, and next week with a gun, I will kill myself to prove Jesus is dead." She hangs up the phone at 5:00PM, and in the morning, she hears her mom screaming. She thinks that the MS has hit her lungs... but then she sees her mom walking perfectly in the house. They run to the hospital and do the blood work and an MRI, and there's no MS in her body. They said to the wife, "What did your mom pray to?" She said, "I didn't pray to anyone. I prayed to Jesus." She immediately brings five people to Christ right there.

The next week she calls the Pastor and says, "I was the girl who wanted to embarrass Jesus, but Jesus embarrassed me. I brought five people to Christ. What should I do with them?" So about a year after this, I was working in tech and I had a very expensive house and almost $200,000 job. The pastor of the program says, "Hey, we're going to this middle Eastern country."

So we went, and I was there. I was in front of the mosque, and the Lord started speaking to me and said, "Do you see these people?" And I said, "Yes, Lord." And he says, "They're all going to Hell. If I give you a way, will you reach them?" And I said to the Lord, "Okay, I'll do it."

The next day I see my future wife, and God tells me this is my wife. I was shocked and I was like, "Oh my goodness, she doesn't speak a word of English and I don't speak a word of her language. How is this even going to work? How is this possible?" So I went to the pastor and told him, "Look, there's something spiritual happening with me and my wife." He said, "Why don't you guys pray about it and come and see me about six months later." Six months later, I go and see her and he tells me three more times, "This is your wife." So I go up to her after the third time, I said, "You know what? God is telling me you're my wife. Will you marry me?" She agreed and was like, "Yeah, God is telling me you're my husband. Let's get married."

When I met her the second time after six months, she had 250 people following her leadership and 25 house churches in five cities. She was actually leading the biggest movement at that time in that country as a woman. She asked me, "Do you have any conditions of our marriage?" I said, "Yeah, we never go back to the country you're from because I have a life in the West. There's no need for us to go back. Basically say bye to your parents," and I could not come back there. So she agreed and she comes back with me to the country I'm from.

After working two months with her hero of the faith, the pastor, and leading her ministry throughout the internet, she comes up to me and says, "I'm depressed." I said, "Why are you depressed? There's all these things. There's malls, there's supermarkets, there's everything you want. We have a huge house, the latest car. What's going on?" She says, "The Western church is under a satanic lullaby and I'm going to sleep. Every time I want to wake up, the lullaby goes faster. Let's go to my country.' I was like, "Let's not. Are you crazy? This country is threatening all these other countries. War is about to break out. There's no way I'm going to that country."

Well, praise the Lord. My wife loves to pray. After praying for a month, I lost my job during the big financial meltdown in the world in 2008. So we went to the country and the church just grew. It grew to 1,000, then 2,000, then 3,000, then 4,000, and then 5,000 people. What I always tell people is this - Jesus is making a mess of the country and we're just the cleanup crew. Jesus is coming in dreams, vision, and power encounters, and we're just cleaning up his mess. The Lord is moving so powerfully that the government of this country comes on the television and states that the number one enemy of the state is Christianity and the House Church Network.

The next day I had 200 leaders arrested. In one year, I had 1,300 people arrested. We went from 5,000 people to 200 to 300, and we went from 50 cities to one. I started crying. I said, "Where are you? In the book of Acts, persecution grows the Church. Why is persecution killing the Church?" Finally the Lord said to me after a year and a half, "You made converts, not disciples. Converts will run away from persecution. Disciples will die for me." I said, "Well, Lord, what does that mean?" He said, "Look at your wife." And I'm looking at her and he says to me, "Because she encountered me, she will die for me. You must give the word of God, but it must be sealed by the power of God."

I started looking at new ways of leading people to Christ and discipling them. This is where we are now, doing disciple-making movements that multiply. Right now it's growing everywhere! We're part of the fastest growing church in the world, we're part of the second fastest, and we're part of other fast moving churches in the Middle East, and God is moving very powerfully.

Jennie: To give you guys a picture of what he's saying, they went from a few hundred in that country to 1 million to 2 million believers. That is happening throughout the Middle East. It's in several different countries. Pastor X is a part of that in several different countries, and his leadership is a part of it as well. It is mind blowing. When I learned all of this, it shows that the gates of Hell cannot stand against the church of God.

In this moment, we are looking at specifically Afghanistan. Let's start with what is happening in that country and this idea that they are running for their lives. Talk about the friends that you have there. Yesterday I said, "Can you tell me about how many leaders you have there?" ...and it was so amazing. Pastor X is looking at a spreadsheet and going down and counting the names and the contacts of his leaders and people on the ground that are fleeing right now. So these are real life people that you have a relationship with. Talk about them and what's going on in the last 24 - 48 hours.

Pastor X: Well, you can say it like this. Twenty years of building a country and building an infrastructure has been decimated in this moment in history. The Taliban have a hit list of all the believers, and they're going to go after them. The Christians are literally going to the mountains of Afghanistan right now with the clothes on their back. The Taliban have been threatening everyone, especially in the rural areas. Every house that has a girl in it, a woman in it, has to put an X on it. If they don't put an X and they find there's a woman in the house, they'll come and kill everyone. The Taliban is taking every girl under 15 for their prize, for their jihad reward. That's their prize or their treasure. Any woman over 25, they kill the husband, take the woman and do whatever they want with them and then sell them into the sex trade.

So many of the people in Afghanistan who are men have given guns to their daughters and wives and say, "Look, you have a decision to make. When the Taliban come, you either kill them or you kill yourself because we can't help you." So many of the believers and many of the Afghans are running to the mountains because the Taliban have come with a vengeance in their heart.

Jennie: You're saying Afghanistan is one of the fastest growing churches in the Middle East. Talk about what they're experiencing and specifically the Taliban's vengeance towards Christianity.

Pastor X: Afghanistan is the second fastest growing church in the world right now. Because of the hit list, the believers have run from their house. They're running from city to city. Many of the top leaders we have are on this hit list, so they're scared for their lives and running to the mountains. The glory part of this is that many of their leaders, third and fourth generation leaders, are staying because they're not on the hit list. They're like, "This is the best time to move the kingdom."

Actually, one of them has a wife that's pregnant, and he's staying there. He called my mother-in-law and said, "When is our zoom meeting?" My mother-in-law said, "Are you kidding me? Right now you want to have a zoom meeting? Where are you?" He's like, "It doesn't matter where I am. I have signal. Let's have our zoom meeting. We need to talk about how to move the Kingdom forward." My mother-in-law started crying and told me, "These are the giants of the faith, and we have it so easy. They're running for their lives and they're thinking about how to bring people to Jesus."

They had to comfort my mother-in-law because she started crying. He said, "Don't worry for me. Don't worry for my wife. We belong to Christ. If something happens to us today, we'll see you tomorrow. This isn't goodbye, it's just see you later." They have such boldness, such courage that I can't even say anything about it. It's just so powerful.

Jennie: Steve, I want you to give everybody a high-level picture of what's happening in the country right now. What are you all facing as leaders of leaders that are on the ground?

Steve Trevino: With everything that is happening in Afghanistan right now, we are seeing that no amount of money can change a nation. Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the economy. We're talking about occupation, training, resources, and shipping containers filled with cash have been sent to Afghanistan. The reality is that the only way to change a nation is through discipleship. It's not through conquering through violence, through coercion. It's not through intimidation, but it's through love.

These churches, these indigenous leaders that come to Jesus - these are locals that respond to the Gospel. There's different terms for them. Sometimes we call them persons of peace. They respond to the message of Jesus and then they start discipleship networks. These discipleship networks grow, multiply, and then they reproduce and this beautiful, organic expression of the body of Christ has grown in the shadows undetected.

In a matter of weeks, the entire nation is turned upside down. We have some believers that are remaining in their homes and some are undetected. For some, their Christianity is still covert, and so they're able to function.

We have a story of someone in the medical field who was approached by the Taliban for help. They were requesting water and food, and this person is a believer. Because of their occupation, they were able to still have access and maintain access. You have believers who are still functioning and doing their job, and they are actually serving the Taliban water and food. They are keeping them close enough, so when the opportunity presents to share the gospel, they'll do that. This is literally happening right now. Then, you have another group that is having to flee. They are in the mountains, they're hiding, and they're in caves. Our heart breaks for all of the believers, especially knowing that winter is coming and winters in Afghanistan are incredibly harsh.

We're in the process of organizing a strategy to be able to get much needed resources, equipment, and gear to these folks. We are also calling the American church to pray. The response of the church here in the West, it's been beautiful. You've seen it, and we see it all over social media. It's really encouraging, and we get to go back and share that with these believers. We get to tell them that the church of the West is in your corner. The church of the West has not forgotten about you, but is rising to this challenge and we want to do everything that we can.

Jennie: So we're going to talk about this at the end as well. We want you to partner with them because this is one of those moments where we actually are going to directly be able to get these funds in to help believers that are in danger in Afghanistan. To clarify what you're saying, there's believers that are still not known. They're not on a list somewhere and they're aware of that. They have stayed covert and underground, and they're able to stay where they are and to love the Taliban. On the other hand, there are Christians that are on lists and are fleeing for their lives because the Taliban has made threats against them. The Taliban has made clear that they are coming for them! Talk about that for a minute.

Steve Trevino: It also has to do with going door to door. Imagine if you're in a neighborhood and you know that you have daughters or a wife, and you're forced to have to indicate with an X on the outside of your door. Some folks are choosing to flee instead of having to face that devastating reality while other believers have said that they will not leave. Those are the conversations that are simultaneously inspiring and heartbreaking. Because of the resilient faith of these believers, there will be martyrs because of this. Our role is to continue to provide support and prayer and resources for whatever the decision may be. If they want to stay, then we want to stand with them. If they want to flee, then we want to help them.

Jennie: They're fleeing to the mountains and the caves because countries around them, their borders are closing. Talk about this desperation for a minute. They're not able to get out of the country even though their lives are in danger.

Steve Trevino: That's right. One of the unfortunate realities of this situation is that neighboring countries have closed their borders. Some are posting armed soldiers, and some are putting up walls and refusing to grant refugee status to these believers.

Jennie: I want to go back to Pastor X, and I want you to share because everybody's just leaning forward right now. I can picture everybody that is watching and they're just leaning forward and going, this is so different than my context. I want you to give a picture of a believer there in Afghanistan and their commitment to Christ and what that looks like. These people haven't had the discipleship that we've had, even though it has happened, praise God, because you all have been a part of helping that happen. They're not sitting there with years and years and years of following Christ behind them, but they are completely IN to the point of risking their lives for Jesus. Talk about that mentality and what it looks like to choose Jesus in that context.

Pastor X: Well, one of the things we have to redefine is what does it mean to be mature in Christ? Is it years or is it obedience? So I actually chose obedience and not years because there are many people who have years in Christ and they're not obedient. The biggest difference right now in what is happening in Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East is that they have learned to obey Christ. Jesus says, if you love me, you obey me and you cannot pick the gospel and the Bible as a buffet. They obey all the commandments of Christ. They obey the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible. These believers might be one year or two years into knowing Christ, but they're very mature in their faith. From the moment they've met God, they've been obeying God and trusting God. They are tangibly feeling God, seeing Him in our lives, and it's becoming personal because we're listening to Him.

After all of these months, even a year, they're completely sold out. They know the Bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Jennie: Before we were recording, we were praying together and you were praying big prayers that many people would be saved because of the persecution that is befalling Afghanistan believers right now. I would say that persecution has always grown the church. You can see that throughout church history. Talk a little bit about your prayers and your hope, Pastor X, as you're watching something so difficult happen to people that you love.

Pastor X: Well, one thing, I live in a country that has persecution, but it's not to the level of Afghanistan, but still very high. One of the things I've learned is that persecution keeps you clinging. It keeps you focused. So when there's persecution that happens, it's like the perfect storm. There's economic unrest, there's political unrest, there's social unrest, and that's the perfect storm for the gospel. These countries are still under persecution, and the gospel flourishes because we come to Jesus when we're broken. This might be a little bit heavy, but I'd rather people go to hell on earth and go to heaven than have heaven on earth, but go to hell. When I see this happening in Afghanistan, I know that Jesus is going to move the Gospel forward because this is a Matthew 11:12 moment. This is the place in time when God is going to pour out his grace and pour out his spirit in Afghanistan.

He's sitting on the throne. He's not surprised by this. He wasn't shocked. He's going to use this for his glory, and He's going to come in dreams and visions like he's done in other countries. Many of the Afghans are going to get saved right now.

Jennie: I think about the incredible work that God has already done through the church in the Middle East, and I think all of us just as we are getting our head around it. You all have been a part of this and known for many years, and we're just starting to get educated on how much has been happening through you because of God. Help me know what it looks like in this next season for us to really partner with you because now we know and aren't naive anymore. Pastor X, what does it look like for us to support these other believers, brothers and sisters that are on the ground right now in prayer?

Pastor X: Our prayer requests are to pray for those fleeing to the hills to be protected, which would be like Psalm 73 and Psalm 91.

Pray for the miraculous protection for women and children being forcibly taken and those who have already been taken for their protection, salvation and deliverance. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-5

Pray that the Afghan church steps into her identity in Christ and walks in the unity of the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel 37 and Romans 15:5-6 

This is an Esther moment right now. Esther had a moment to save the Jews by going into the king's chambers. Well, we have a moment that God wants to use to save the Afghan people, and we need your prayers because everything happens through prayer. If you're not praying, the kingdom of God will not go forward. The spiritual warfare is very extreme in the Middle East, and we need your prayers big time.

Jennie: We want to do that! Before we do, I am eager to hear Steve talk about what we can do to financially support. People can only take a certain amount, so it has to be strategic how they're going to get these funds in. Steve, talk about exactly what people would be giving to today.

Steve Trevino: We need to raise $200,000, and these funds are going to build a war chest for these believers. We have access right now. We can get funds directly into the country through divine strategy and favor, and we're going to do just that. We already have teams that are ready to do that. They also need supplies, much needed supplies. We need to get them gear for the winter, food, and vitamins. 100% of everything that comes in is going to go directly to impacting and serving the believers that are in Afghanistan today.

Jennie: The number of believers that they have direct access to is around 1,500 people. We know that number will eventually reach more because of the community of believers there right now. I wanted to read this and then we will close in prayer. 

Romans 8:31 says this, because we are praying this for our sisters and brothers in Afghanistan, "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died. More than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us, who shall separate us from the love of Christ shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword. As it is written, for your sake we are being killed all the day long. We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered. Know, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." 

So God, here we are and we are begging you for these verses to fill the souls of those that are running, that are fleeing, and that are suffering. God will these verses wash over them, would they experience your peace, would they believe that they are loved by you and seen by you. And not just seen and loved by you, but seen by us, God, that the world is praying for them and with them. The global church is cheering and praying and believing God in you for them, and so, God, would they not feel alone in the dark.

God, I pray that there would be a mighty hand of protection over their lives. Would you preserve their physical lives, God, on earth? And God, we thank you for this incredible movement that you have started through people like Pastor X, that have just followed you and obeyed. You have done this mighty thing and caused so many others to follow you and to obey. God, will this only be fuel for the church of Jesus in the Middle East. We know that you have all things in your hand and that you are in control and are able to do anything at any point. We ask you, God, for protection over these believers, over their wives, and over their children. God, would you protect them? Would you hide them? Would there be a beautiful uprising of the church across the globe? Would we not be naive and checked out, but would we be engaged that your Gospel is going forth in the darkest places?

God, how much more we should take the Gospel to the places that we aren't being killed for. God, that we can just talk about you today, those of us that are safe and probably those of us that are watching this. Help us to be bold. Help us to believe. Help us to see our part in this beautiful story that you're building in our generation. We trust you. We believe you. Give us, God, confidence to follow you in the same way. Would they be role models to us? Thank you, thank you, thank you for the work that is being done. Thank you that we get to be a part of it in Jesus' name. Amen. 

I would love, Pastor X, for you just to close this out. Just give everybody that's watching just a word of encouragement of what it looks like for us in our places, wherever we are, with our lives intact, with our plenty, with our comforts. What does it look like for us today to be obedient, to actually not fall under that lullaby that your wife talks about?

Pastor X: Well, one is that we have to live for eternity. What are we living for? Are we living for the things of this world that are going to pass away in an earthquake, in a fire, through natural events? Or are we living for eternity? We're sojourners in this world. We've got to focus on eternity. We've also got to focus on the lost. God sent his Son for the lost. Jesus died for the lost. Jesus didn't die for the believer. That's the resurrection. He spilled his blood for the lost, and we have to remember that. The whole reason the Church is in existence is to go and fulfill the Great Commission. That means go and make disciples of everyone, of anyone, everywhere. It doesn't say, "For God so loved the believer he sent his only begotten son. It says, "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son."

So if you want to wake up, you need to be about your Father's business, which is what? Go and disciple people. Go and bring people to Jesus. Don't just pass them like a hot potato at church. Live life with them like Jesus did. Disciple them. Bring them on the process. That's one thing we can help you guys with. You can partner with us. We're doing this in America what we're doing in the Middle East, and we have a whole curriculum ready and a whole program ready to start the same movement that's happening in the Middle East inside of America. Jennie, maybe in one year, maybe in a few years, we may be talking about America being the fastest growing church in the world. What if we hear that again?

Jennie: Well, I am with you. I think that the cost of the church growing is likely persecution, and I just want to say that we're not. Looking at Afghanistan right now, I see how far away we are from that. However, it can happen fast. As a believer in the West, my heart is to equip and disciple as many people as we can through the resources and tools we build. We don't know when everything will or could change. We want people to be prepared, but that moment has not happened here. Persecution is not what we're experiencing here yet. To say that in light of what's happening in Afghanistan would be a trite thing to say. However, we are preparing and imagining what it looks like to persevere in any situation that we are faced with in the United States or in other countries.

It's a hard time to be alive. Yet, I believe that there are things happening in this generation that are shaping eternity. And it's just such an honor to get to share this conversation and friendship with both of you being some of the leading people that are causing those things to happen. So we're really, really grateful to know you, and thank you so much for giving us time and telling us these stories just so that we can pray better and hopefully fund at least $200,000 that we can get into Afghanistan. So you guys go give right now. The link is up. Go to the link and let's knock this out as fast as we can. In fact, let's blow it out of the water. My hope is we bypass that $200,000 and raise so much so that we can truly get help and aid to believers in Afghanistan. Thank you guys both so much for what you do.

We are grateful for the opportunity to partner with Global Catalytic Ministries in this moment. If you're interested in giving to Global Catalytic Ministry so they can provide necessary funds to believers on the ground, go to catalyticministries.com/giving. For a seven day prayer guide and more information on giving, go to ifgathering.com/afghanistan.