You are Never Alone with Max Lucado

November 05, 2020

Jennie Allen

Bible teacher, founder of IF:Gathering

Today we're talking about the pandemic within the pandemic. This is the thing that is haunting us in the midst of this season of COVID-19. We are all isolated and divided. Max has a book on this topic and it's called You are Never Alone and it is so important.

Max, I don't know how you do it, but you write to the felt need of where we are again and again. I imagine this book was planned well before we were in the midst of a pandemic.

Oh yeah, well before the pandemic. This idea that I had for this book was way pre-pandemic. The final proof was right at the beginning of isolation, so I did have an opportunity to address the pandemic before it went off the press last March. This book is dealing with loneliness and isolation and letting Jesus be the person that meets this deep need for community. It's something that I was thinking about long before the year 2020.

So we're in the midst of this very unique season where people are very lonely. What has this pandemic done to confirm your presuppositions when you wrote this book. How have you seen this pandemic make it clear that we have a problem with this?

Loneliness and isolation has become a topic! When I was writing and studying, it was an interesting idea. Now it's a topic. You're seeing an increasing number of studies done on this. One of the studies that was interesting to me came out in early summer, as psychologists had been working with people who felt a deep sense of isolation and loneliness. One of them came to the realization that severe loneliness is the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. It takes its toll - not just on our emotional wellbeing but on our physical wellbeing. It's a rough thing. We're community people - we were made to live in community with one another. What God said about Adam was true about all people - it's not good that we be alone. These extended bouts of loneliness are taking their toll on us. Just last Friday, I went to a grocery store wearing a mask, with my wife, and I just felt so disconnected. You couldn't smile or say hello to people. We are in a situation now where we don't know how to relate to one another and it's very unusual.

I've noticed I can't even understand what people are saying to me when they're talking through masks, because now we have shields and masks between us! It really is such a disconnection. People don't even really try to talk anymore because it's just not worth it. Specifically for the elderly! In your church, you take care of a lot of people who are in that age group and they have to be separate from family. What are you hearing from them?

We're doing our best to stay in touch with everyone. In fact, I'm not Senior Pastor anymore, but we have a younger Senior Pastor now. He really commissioned everybody as a part of their day-to-day assignment as a staff member to reach out to at least 4-5 people and check in. I think that the idea of checking in with somebody helps the person on the receiving end to know that they're not alone. I was doing an interview the other day with a delightful young woman from Australia, and she said in Australia they have "are you okay day." It's a government thing! I like that idea. Everybody is commissioned to call their friends and family and make sure they're okay. I think we default to a state of despair. We assume the worst. If you're all by yourself, or just with the same people over a few months, and you're watching the news, you can spiral into a quicksand of despair if you're not careful. Having somebody reach out to you and ask if you're okay can be just what a person needs to get through one of those dark hours. 

A lot of what the premise of the book is is that we're never alone because God is with us. That relationship is primary. In the book you were super vulnerable about times you even felt separation between you and God. I think a lot of people are wrestling with that. They're thinking deep thoughts and asking bigger questions right now.

I'm so curious to see what the impact of this is going to be on the church. I don't know if this is a Gideon moment or a great harvest. I'm praying for a great harvest, because we've really taken it on the chin in terms of the pandemic, then the economic freefall, then the racial tension, and now a Presidential election. It's about all we can do to keep calm. I looked at the miracles of Jesus as described in the Gospel of John. The reason I did that is because as you know, John tells us why he wrote his Gospel. He said, "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31). There's something about these miracles that he's selected that are intended to give us life. To your question, there were times in my life in which I discovered the miraculous presence of Christ during a very, very difficult time. If you have a couple of minutes I'll share one with you that I shared for the first time in the book. I felt the healing of Christ so immediately, I never really shared this story much. At the age of 12, me and my good friends were sexually abused by a man who portrayed himself as a mentor to young men - at least that's what our fathers thought. He would take us to basketball games and rodeos, but he would also take us on camping trips. One weekend as we were unpacking the tents on a camping trip, he also pulled out a case of liquor. He worked his way through that liquor and through the sleeping bags of each of the boys. He did that several times. It was horrible, it was a nightmare, we had no escape, we had no way of getting in touch with anyone, and he of course told us not to tell anybody. We made it back home and he dumped us off at our houses, it was Sunday night, and our church had a special communion service that night. I needed that communion service - I felt so dirty. I didn't tell my parents what had happened, because of what he said, and you know, 12 year olds can't process stuff like this. That night, after my parents had gone to bed, I decided to have my own communion service. I went into our kitchen and dug around in the fridge looking for bread and juice - I found potatoes and milk. That was going to have to do! I can see myself in my imagination, freshly bathed, wearing my pajamas, praying as well as I could the prayers of the eucharist, inviting Jesus to meet me, and he did. He was there. As much as I've ever sensed him in my life, he was there, and he healed me. Rather than carry the guilt and shame of that tragedy, I felt the healing presence of Christ. That moment has been fuel in my fire for all these years when I tell people they're not alone. He is there. I experienced him and he will help you and heal you. What I'm wondering is if in this time of isolation and tragedy, as horrible as it is, might be that opportunity that all of us need to lean entirely on him, to experience him, in a way that you never have before. So that you can carry this into your testimony and say, "those were dark, difficult days, but I experienced the presence of Christ with me, and he became my friend. He led me and guided me and because of him, I'm standing today." 

I want to hear about who God is to you in the midst of that moment. I believe every word you're saying. I have felt the healing power of God in a way that is so supernatural and can not be explained apart from experiencing it. But for those that haven't experienced it, who was God in that moment to you? 

There's a beautiful description of God in the Psalms. It calls him an ever-present help in times of trouble. Not an occasionally present God, but an ever-present help. What I would ask if I was struggling to connect with God and I just heard that story I told, I could imagine someone saying, "why didn't God do that for me?" To you, my dear friend, I would say, don't trust your feelings. Believe the facts and the promises of scripture. Believe that these miracles that are in the scriptures were written not to tell you what Jesus did, but to tell you what Jesus does. Just as Jesus walked on the water to the disciples as they felt all alone on the water, he will walk on the water and meet you in the middle of this storm. Just trust him! Sometimes we feel and sense his presence and that is a wonderful thing. Many times we don't and our lives are like the book of Esther. We don't hear his voice and we wonder where he is! But he still is there. Be careful about trusting your feelings. Stand firmly on the promises of scripture. "Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you, I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20). Stand on those promises! 

The person that goes "okay, yes Max, I want to do that!" What is the first action they can take to just be with God. Sometimes we can get held up because we don't even know how to pray or how to connect with God. Should they get some potatoes and milk out?

Not a bad idea! If my children wanted to connect with me, all they would need to do is say, "Dad, can we talk?" If you want to connect with God, all you need to do is say, "Lord, can we talk? Can I tell you what's on my heart? I'm going to do my best to listen and hear what's on yours. Can we just talk for a few minutes?" Those moments in which we spend talking to God is not anything scientific or super-sophisticated. It's just a moment where you say, "God, I feel like I'm carrying more than I'm made to carry." Open your mind to the possibility that it's going to get better. We're trying to avoid that quicksand of despair. Despair sucks us under. Open your mind, open your heart, open your Bible. The reason I love the miracles in the Gospel of John is they're just so practical. Jesus turned water into wine to help his mother and their friends at a wedding. What a great story! How kind of Jesus! His inaugural miracle would be something so relatively mundane. He tells us that he cares about us. He heard the prayer of a father as his son was dying, and the man walked 20 miles to see Jesus, begging him to come home with him. Jesus said, go home! Your son is healed. The man had to make a choice that he was going to believe the declaration of Christ or not - and he did! He walked those 20 miles by faith. 

I think it's so hard for people to believe this, because we live in such a cynical world that is so pragmatic. My hope is that the belief in the supernatural power of God would be restored. That there would be prayers prayed for the impossible. We are in a season where we need the impossible. We need things healed in our children that are beyond our ability as parents to solve. I just think of everybody out there that is wanting to believe this - and I know you guys can't see me but I'm wiping away tears as I listen to this, because I realize that it is urgent and needed to recognize that God is with you. There's not a better hope in the world! That God is with you, he made you, and he loves you. Max, what you do so well is invite us into that in a simple way. If you're listening and feel like there is some barrier or wall between you and God, know that it might take more than a minute when you sit down and pray what Max just said. When you sit down and start to talk to God, it might be the most awkward thing you've ever felt. It might be painfully awkward. Just stay with it! Stay with him. There will be a moment where you experience him in such a way that you can not deny that that is God. Why a testimony is so powerful is because it's the story of how God revealed himself to each of us as individuals. That is my prayer if you're listening and feel like you are so distant from God. Whatever it is that is separating you, it can fall down! Max, I just want you to speak specifically to that person who feels like nobody else cares. The church is part of God's love for us. It's part of the way we know we're not alone, when the church comes around us. 

I would so desire the opportunity to sit down at a table with you and share a cup of coffee and hear your story. I really would. I know it can be difficult. I know it can be a struggle, but this is a high stakes decision. I know it goes contrary to many of the things you may have been taught or told, or even experienced in your life, but would you be willing to consider the possibility that there is a living and loving God who cares deeply about you? So deeply about you, that he became one of us, so that you would know that he knows how you feel. He knows what it's like to be alone and to struggle. He spent 40 days in the wilderness with no one but the devil! The devil tempted him for 40 days. He knows what these battles are like, and you're in that battle right now. Would you be willing to just lean into him? Like Jennie said, it may take one prayer, 10 prayers, 100 prayers, but this is a high stakes decision that impacts not just you, but your children and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren. My dad was born in a home full of alcohol and he could've easily passed on that legacy to me and our family, and we did struggle as youngsters, but my dad at the age of 22 in a conversation in an oil field, decided that he was going to lead his family in a different direction. He made an about-face, a 180-degree turn, and led his family in a way entirely different than he had been led. I'm so thankful to God that he did. I'm just begging you if you're struggling or lonely to consider that the purpose of your pain is to invite you into the presence of God, not away from him. All these miracles in the Gospel of John exist to tell you how much God loves you. One of my favorite miracles happened after the resurrection when Jesus appeared on the shore of the sea of Galilee. I call it breakfast tacos with Jesus! That night his disciples were out on the stormy sea, but they had been fishing all night, just like the first time Jesus got in their boat. They had fished all night and hadn't caught a thing, and they hear somebody from the shore say "try the other side!" and they pull out so many fish they think their boat is going to sink! John recognizes that's Jesus talking and Peter barely gets his britches on before he jumps into the sea. It was Peter who had denied Christ! He swore he never would, but he denied Christ three times. Jesus shows up, invites him to have breakfast, and it is just the most tender moment. Jesus has done that for me - he's done that for all of us. We've denied him and broken our promises, and he just invites us into his world. He resinstates us like he did Peter. Peter was never the same after that day. We all need those moments in our lives. Again, the reason these stores are in the Gospel is not just to tell us what Jesus did, but what Jesus does. I hope you'll trust him. Let him love you.

Max, would you just lead us in a prayer for those who haven't believed in Jesus before?

I would love to. I'm going to tell another story too - about 8 or 10 years ago our staff invested in some new cell phones. I'm not very techy, I don't understand how everything works on these cell phones, but one thing I did have on all my cell phones was a filter. I don't like the idea that I could be two clicks away from seeing a naked woman on my screen. So I had always insisted that I have that on all my technology. They passed out new cell phones, it was on my desk in the morning, I went in and turned it on and fiddled with it for a minute, set it to the side, studied some more, and then I thought, "I wonder if they've installed the filter in there?" Jennie, you may never have me back on the podcast after I tell you what I did. There wasn't a filter. So I hit a few words, and all the sudden there she was, right there on the screen. It was terrible. I put the phone down and what I should've done was taken the phone, walked down the hallway to our tech team and said, "hey, you've got to protect me here." I was ashamed and embarrassed. I stuck the phone in my pocket, went home, and my wife was cooking. I put the phone on the island and she said, "oh you got a new phone!" She picks it up and sees what was still right there on the screen. She just gave me a look I'll never forget. I died a thousand deaths. I had to explain it to her but no explanation justified what I did. I could barely sleep all night, and when I woke up the next morning, my wife had done a wonderful thing. On the bathroom mirror, with her lipstick, she drew a huge heart on my mirror. She had written in the middle, "I forgive you. I love you. Let's move on." It was a powerful moment. The only reason I tell that story is because that's what Jesus did for us. He knows how we stumble, he knows that we do stupid things, but he writes not with lipstick, but with his won blood, he writes "I forgive you, I love you, let's move on." That's the message I'd like to share. God has a new you waiting to happen - a you that's based on his grace and forgiveness. Lord, I pray for anybody hearing this story, who heard my stories today and a testimony to how good you've been to me. I pray for Jennie, I pray for every person, I pray for a new day, I pray this season in which we find ourselves would result in the salvation of hundreds of thousands of people. I pray especially for that person listening almost on accident, would you tell them that you brought them into this conversation? That you want to give them a new start. I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen!